Importance of Amplifier versus Preamp?

"01-26-15: Mapman
Yes, getting an integrated means an expert matches amp and pre-amp for you."

Not all experts are created equal. lol.

01-26-15: Mapman
The better highly efficient Class D amps out there today, and some are quite good, can deliver 500w/ch or more for comparable cost to lower power Traditional less efficient Class A/B or certainly class A amps, tube or SS.

So you can get efficiencies in speaker, amp or both these days.

True enough. But I think that a more apples to apples comparison illustrating the point Minorl and I have been trying to make would be comparing the prices of the Pass amps as you go up the line in power within a given series (e.g., X.5 or XA.5 or X.8 or XA.8). Or within the ARC Ref series of amps, or among Atmasphere amps, or any number of other such examples that could be cited.

Bottom line is you have to get things matched well to keep costs under control. I'd get speaker/room interactions right first using a suitable amp for the speakers, in order to be in a position first to access source sound quality meaningfully, and then tweak the pre-amp and source from there. How can one assess the sound quality of a pre-amp without the stuff downstream needed to make the music in place properly first?

Agreed completely.

Best regards,
-- Al

Of course, for the computer audio crowd these days, the rage is to remove the pre-amp and just have a good output stage and volume control in the DAC. This is basically the old passive pre-amp idea. I am still of the mind that the pre-amp matters, assuming levels and impedance match up OK. But lots of people are going without pre-amps these days. As to integrateds, one of the old standards the Naim Nait 5 is passive, it has no pre-amp state in it. They just concentrate on the power amp section.

Just wanted to throw in another option.

I believe the preamp is more important, this was evident as I moved up the food chain... most important though is the synergy between the preamp , amp and speakers. You can have great equipment that doesn't gel vs. very good gear that sounds right together.

"01-26-15: Dtc
Of course, for the computer audio crowd these days, the rage is to remove the pre-amp and just have a good output stage and volume control in the DAC. This is basically the old passive pre-amp idea. I am still of the mind that the pre-amp matters, assuming levels and impedance match up OK. But lots of people are going without pre-amps these days. As to integrateds, one of the old standards the Naim Nait 5 is passive, it has no pre-amp state in it. They just concentrate on the power amp section."

There's really nothing wrong going directly to an amp either. Its just a matter of how well its implemented and what you're personal preference is. I've been using Wadia CD players for years. I can get good sound with or without a preamp.

Your Naim example is excellent. If there was ever a case to be made about using a passive in a budget integrated, the Nait 5i I had was it. That thing was nothing short of a train wreck. One of the worst pieces of audio gear I've ever heard or bought. They just tried to do too much at that price point. Naim should have left it passive. Compare that to my Creek 5350SE that used a passive preamp in it
and there was no comparison. Even though both amps were about the same price, you would never know it based on SQ.