2. amps-preamps
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Is too much power in an amp really a problem?

As recently as 8-10 yrs. ago, I maintained my card carrying residence in the ‘lots o’ watts’ camp’ regularly. I’ve since held only a casual attendance to that group, and since departed with the acquisition of higher eff speakers, and lower powered tube amps.

Now I’m debating the future and appropriateness, of that perception and considering another SS, or a non tube amp. This time a digital amp… such as a class D or ICE configuration… as in a Bel Canto, PS Audio, Spectron, Wyred 4 S, etc., to use for both music and HT with my current Silverline speakers.

Several of these amps profess IMO rather high ratings for output power. 250, 300, and 500 wpc into 8 ohms, as your ‘oh by the way’ choices, and then doubling up should the impedance drop off to 4 ohms!

1000 wats per!

E frekin' Gad!

Truth be told, I’ve never put together a high eff speaker & high powered amp combo, nor felt the need, so I’m in a whole new ball game now, or am I?

I understand immense power reservoirs on tap, (like with my former BAT vk500) is a good thing, as well as are other attributes like a good input impedance, and control or damping figures. that amp ran VR4 JRs though, and both have since departed la casa Sunburn.

Additionally, my current tube mono blocks (120wpc) handle my 93db Sonata IIIs quite well IMO. My Odyssey Stratos SE also does a good enough job too rated at about 160 wpc. Between the two amps, the Dodds are the better sounding, and appear to have better control and more ease with the Silverliness.

In making a choice on one of these Digital or ICE amps, should the power numbers be regarded as something other than what they are? I mean more likely, do 250 wpc into 8 ohm rated ICE amps provide likewise results or the same feel, of an SS amp having the same output? Ie., control, power reserves, etc?

I do feel a good match between the speakers and amp is a prime consideration now, and do not wish to buy far too much or too little an amp, given these thoughts.

There too is the thought of the amps actual 'voice' itself to consider.

I sure wouldn’t want to smoke the speaks with too little or too much power on tap. Or have the amp ()s) always loafing. Or is that loafing bit just nonsense?

Any experiences and insights here on the digi power front is more than appreciated as I'm trying to get a 'feel' for this 'new to me' amp topology and not over or under buy.

Thanks much.
blindjim
larryi
3,907 posts
 
The sentiment that one can always benefit from more power, may be true, assuming nothing else is lost in attaining more power, is often grounded on demonstrations that live music has an enormous dynamic range. In particular, a piano, and symphonic orchestras are used as examples. But, no commercial recordings ever really exploit the full dynamic range of either; if they did, most people would be unable to listen to such recordings. In other words, the importance of lots of power is greatly exaggerated.

Are there tradeoffs in attaining more output capability? At least some designers think there are big tradeoffs. Some designers think something is lost when more than one output device is used (or two in a pushpull design). In the solid state realm Dartzeel amps are designed on that premise (their original amp sounds pretty good to me, though I don't know if any particular design choice accounts for the good sound). Designers of low powered tube equipment also think the same way. I tend to not like as much tube gear with high power and lots of tubes.

I have only heard a couple of Class D amps (Bel Canto and a Rowland). The Rowland (early model costing something like $14k) I heard auditioned in two systems owned by friends. In the system with Sonus Faber Anniversarios, it sounded decent, though a Hovland Radia amp sounded better to me and is a lot cheaper. In the other friend's horn-based system (107 db efficient), it sounded much worse in comparison with low output tube amps.

I don't know where the current state of the stands with respect to switching amps, but, my understanding is that there is NO performance parameter where a switching amp is better than conventional solid state; good design being a matter of minimizing bad characteristics. The advantages of switching amps are all practical: compact size, high efficiency, low heat output, and low cost to produce. That may well mean that at certain price levels they outperform other types of amps, particularly where truly high levels of power are needed. I think they would be at their competitive worst, where high power is not needed and price is not a major limiting factor.
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 
"But are they in general, dryer or cooler sounding than SS?"

The answer is. . . there is really no answer, because there is no longer an . . . "in general" with ICE amps. Some of the older designs tend to be on the cool side of neutral. The more recent designs tend to fit exactly where the designers want them to fit. E.g. the Bel Canto Ref 1K Mk.2 that I review yields mounds of harmonics and has just a smidjin of warmth. It definitly does not sound like stereotypical old ICE, nor like stereotypical SS. On the other hand, it neither has a stereotypical tuby sound, although its neutrality has just the slightest hint of tubes. I have heard some comments that the Ref 500 may be even slightly more extended and may have an even sweeter treble. Guido
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 
Larryi, what you heard is probably the old Rowland 302. I agree completely with you, it sounded nice but it did not stir any emotions. That is why I was kind of skeptical when I first auditioned its successor, the 312. . . luckily it is a completely different beast and it is a greatly involving amp. . . and I have it in my system. But its price point is probably not what Jim is looking for, nor is its throughput. That is why I am suggesting the Bel Canto Ref 500.

Class D amps are evolving rapidly. What was the state of the art in Class D designs just a few years ago has already been long surpassed. It is not only a matter of newer modules, but also of a learning curve by class D amp designers. The Rowland 302 does not represent the current state of the art in class D sound, and your misgivings about it are quite justified.

It is worth pointing out that class D and ICEpower amps are neither inherently superior nor inferior to any other technology. I can say the same of tubes or classic SS. ICEpower modules are basic components just like 6550 tubes. One can create a very basic device with them, or one can create a cost no object amp. We can't really judge one by the other, nor we can make some broad assertions about sonic footprints of the class in general, because class D amps today tend to sound very different from one an other.
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jaymark
505 posts
 
I run 300 wpc Sheng Ya monoblock solid state amplifiers on the low end and Wyred 4 Sound 125 wpc amps on the top end of Emerald Physic speakers. These are highly sensitive speakers yet they sound specatcular with the powerful amps I am using on the low end. Do you need this much power? Probably not with these pseakers. But again the sound is spectacular, emotive, and impactful.......I was surprised very pleasantly....
blindjim OP
3,092 posts
 

I used Bel Canto solely as a reference point. They aren't on my short list for consideration. Only Wyred 4, Rowland, & Spectron are. The latter two probably will be cost prohibitive though.
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