Jazz for aficionados

****They don't exist there now, because odds are,they never did. Music in the West created and played by people of African decent, does not mean the orgin is African. Just like in the U.S. People are forever trying to connect the Blues, Jazz and Gospel with Africa. There is no connection. It's all indigenous to the US.****

Rok, if what you say is true then just about every authority on the subject, historian or musicologist, is incorrect; that's quite a claim.

Are you kidding me?:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VT2J1Ot9N5c

Who do we believe? Rok; or jazz master Randy Weston?:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S3L-lG_qmo8

Two pieces of good advice:

1. Never believe anything written / spoken by white people, about black people, and their history and culture.

2. Never believe anything written / spoken by black people, about black people, and their history and culture.

And no, I did not make a typo in #2.

When its come to race, everyone has an agenda. The central theme being what I call "feel good history". Every other group has an "Old Country", so black folks want one also.

Every CD I own by Weston has some so-called African theme, if nothing but the clothes he wears on the cover. But I never hear any African in the music. He is just trying to create history out of thin air.

Even Ellington went around the Third world trying to find the source of certain music, and found it all to be much ado about nothing. He cut his tour short and came home.

Africans take their cue from, and are influenced, by AMERICAN / WESTERN musicians, not the other way around. If Blues, Jazz etc... was from Africa, it would still be there.

The African contribution to music centers around the Human Voice. In that area, they are unmatched! They have a sound that no one else can duplicate.

Some of this African stuff is sort of like 'Indian" music we used to hear in the western cowboy movies. When the soundtrack played 'Indian' music we knew they were coming.

Did Real Indians really play that music in their villages? Or were we just conditioned to associate it with Indians. Same goes for oriental and Latino locations. The music told us the location. Was it legit, or Hollywood? Same with "African" music. Esp the Drum nonsense.

The best percussion I have ever heard comes from Cuba and other latin American countries.

Just one Frenchman's Opinion.

Cheers

I think Olatunji started all this back is the hippy 60's.

Cheers

Yours is certainly a provocative stance; and, worthy of consideration. Here's the problem for me, and many others: The African influence in Caribbean music (since we are focusing on Cuban music right now I will put the subject of jazz aside) is there to be heard; it couldn't be more obvious. Did you listen to the clip I just submitted of Liberian drumming? The similarity to rumba and salsa could not be more obvious. I agree that when it comes to race everyone has an agenda; including, in some cases, a purported lack of agenda. The purported lack of agenda becomes even more relevant when there is a natural resistance to analyze the subject matter; in this case, music. It's that pesky N&B thing again; no matter how hard we try, we can't get away from it if we are going to do anything more than listen to and enjoy music without commentary trying to be be factual.

****The best percussion I have ever heard comes from Cuba and other latin American countries.****

No one is disputing that. The point is that we are talking about INFLUENCES; the African influence. You are correct in that it's ludicrous to say "Cuban music came from Africa"; it's also ludicrous to say that "Cuban music" would sound anything like it does today had there been no African influence.

****Did Real Indians really play that music in their villages?****

Of course they did. Well documented and lots of sources to read about it. No disrespect intended, but do you, at least, read the available literature on this stuff? There is no question that Hollywood and other commercial powers often inflate and distort what we are talking about; but that doesn't change the reality of the influence factor. I find it hard to believe that you have never heard anything like this, but check this out and tell me that it is not plausible, and likely, that the silly "Indian" themes that we hear in the old Westerns were greatly INFLUENCED by native music like this (notice the use of the minor pentatonic scale; THAT is what gives the music it's melodic character and it's "Hollywood" sound)

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yec542aOIzM[URL]

Cheers.

Re: rok2id's comments about African influence in Jazz. 1st, I got a good laugh from them. Than I'm like; "do I answer? Nah, don't go there". Talk about selective, revisionist logic! But, whatever floats his boat, there's no use trying to dialog with someone who....nah, I'm not gonna go there. You guys have a good day!;)