Jazz for aficionados

Rok, I can only assume that you were so excited to read something "supporting" your strange stance on "the African influence" that you neglected to read the entire article. From the very article that you linked:

****I have discussed western influences on African music; it will be impossible to close this discussion without highlighting that Africans have a profound influence on world music today. We can trace this influence to times before the popularization of Jazz as a true hybrid of African and Western musical idioms. Trade played a major role in exposing other nations to African music. Diaries of early explorers are full of accounts that at times exhibit their biases about a culture they viewed as primitive and inferior to their own.

It is also important to note that some early writers, such as Mc Kinney and Anderson, who acknowledged that "Negroes [African Americans] brought into the country [America] their own flavor of rhythmic genius and harmonic love for color peculiar to their music." The African influence on Jazz, Reggae, Rhythm and Blues, Hip hop, Rap and other popular forms of music that exist in America, Asia, Europe and other continents cannot be discounted. Mc Kinney and Anderson acknowledge the African contributions to indigenous American art forms when they write, ''Africans contributed to the first popular form of amusement indigenous to the American scene was the minstrel show, a distinctly native combination of a sort folk vaudeville with topical songs of a Negroid character." It is within this context that Africa continues to play a major role in reshaping the world music. One of the major African music idioms that have influence world music is captured in Jazz. Mc Kinney and Anderson argue that Jazz is a kind of music fusing elements from such widely differing sources as European harmony, Euro-African melody, and African rhythm into a kind of improvisations style based on a fixed rhythmic foundation. Its beginnings can be traced to the Negro musicians in the French quarters of the city of New Orleans around 1890.****

Seems as if you have been exposed to 'feel good history'. Being in NY, that is not surprising. A few facts would be nice, rather than just what some guy wrote. Remember, EVERYONE, has an agenda. Esp the liberal left. And most of what is written about the arts, is written by them. They are determine to make Africa something, even if it is not. They don't respect the music or the people, so being accurate is not important to them.

If all this stuff came from Africa, why is it not there now? Don't shortchange the people of the US and Cuba. Give them their due. THEY created this music. The only thing that originated in Africa were their ancestors.

You need to get out more. :) Visit the United States. Start with the Mississippi river in St Louis, MO, then down to Memphis, the Delta, and Louisiana, and then over to Texas. Make sure you write down everytime you hear the word 'Africa'.

One last thing. In many parts of the world, 'Afro' just means black. If black people play a certain music it's called AFRO-whatever. If the local whites had played the same music first, note for note, it would not be called Afro-anything. So much for orgins.

Cheers

So, what exactly are you saying? That the article that you referenced (link) is invalid as a whole since it too is simply "what some guy wrote"? If so, then why did you reference the article? Rok, the problem in trying to resolve this disagreement is that you are relying on, and disputing, only what is being said with words. You are not listening to what the music itself is saying; you are not letting your ears give you "the proof". You insist on equating "influence" with "creation"; they are two different but related things. I am going to be blunt and I mean no disrespect: it's amazing that someone who loves music so much can be so closed to understanding the building blocks of music; and how much there is to understand. The connection (the influence) between the different musics is there to be heard; it's loud and clear. THAT'S the proof. I'll give you a concrete example (you want proof?):

The fifth track on the record that we are commenting on (and the first of "my three") "Fiesta De La Rumba" starts with a slow 3-2 Rumba Clave rhythm. I will get deeper into the importance of Clave rhythm in Cuban music in my comments about the three tracks, but for now "the proof" lies in the fact that the Clave rhythm originated in Sub-Saharan African music traditions and has the same role in that music as in Cuban music. This is well documented and not really up for debate and all one has to do is LISTEN; but, first one has to know what one is listening to. I suppose that this fact is simply a coincidence in your view? This is the reason that I have repeatedly encouraged you to learn more about this stuff. IMO, you are doing yourself a disservice by holding on to ideas that not only have no basis in fact, but are contrary to those of every authority on the subject.

****Don't shortchange the people of the US and Cuba****

Why are you so invested in shortchanging the people of Africa?

O-10, I will try to get my part done this evening.

****Spirituals, Blues, and Jazz are uniquely American, with no African influence I can detect.****

O-10, that comment is almost as surprising as Rok's. I think the operative part of the comment, and what keeps it from being inaccurate is "that I can detect". That one can't detect something does not mean that it isn't there; simply that one cannot detect (hear) it....yet. I think one has to be careful about making comments like that as if they are fact without first having a really thorough grasp of the literature on the subject and what those who have studied the music and its origins very thoroughly have to say on the matter. Of course blues, spirituals and jazz are uniquely American creations, but the African influence is very strong. Again, influence is not the same as creation. And btw, the cross-cultural influences in music are not unique to African culture; the same can be said of any culture that had any significant contact with another. All this becomes obvious if one understands what the components of music are on a deeper level. How can we understand how the use of "blue" notes or polymetric rhythms in African music influenced the blues and jazz if we don't know what a blue note is? Do we? And that is only the tip of the iceberg.

The potential in these discussions is great, but we are going to keep coming up against these obstacles and distractions if instead of keeping a more open mind to how much there is to learn there is commentary presented as fact when it isn't. The following link is highly recommended reading from an "authority" on the subject; and, before we are too quick to deem the article "feel good, politically correct nonsense" (or something like that) I encourage you to remember that practically every jazz player on the planet would agree with it.

Cheers.

http://www.jazzedmagazine.com/2893/articles/focus-session/the-african-origins-of-jazz/