Today's Listen:
Andy Bey -- ANDY BEY AND THE BEY SISTERS
Good tune selection. Great Harmony. Laid back slow tempos. I would have liked more like 'sister sadie', which was my favorite.
Beethoven -- DIABELLI VARIATIONS
Andreas Staier on fortepiano
This CD has the distinction of having more tracks than any other single CD I have ever seen. 46!!
ain't got it git it.
Cheers |
****Rok, it would take a volume of books to answer the questions you ask in regard to music and the generations.***
Not for much longer. :) Today I learned about PLAINCHANT, which is the basis for all Western Composed music.
Did you know, that, Plainchant represents the single greatest body of music created by Western Culture? :)
It is often referred to as 'Gregorian Chant'. I actually have a CD of Gregorian Chant. The last time I listened to it, it put me to sleep.
But, according to this book that was sort of the purpose of it. To get you in a state of mind, conducive to meditation.
Seems as if we can all be grateful to the Christian Church for holding the fort during the dark ages.
BBC magazine ran a piece about a year ago. 'The most influential people in classical music.' The top three were Pythagoras, Jesus Christ, Gregory the Great.
I am now begining to see why.
Cheers |
Rok, it would take a volume of books to answer the questions you ask in regard to music and the generations. Everything, including economics and social structure has to be taken into account; music is not created in a vacuum. When I attempt to answer your questions, after going around like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel, and finding myself in a tunnel that leads to a tunnel of it's own, I quit; that's when I throw the four sheets of paper in the can.
Frogman, it feels good to be back. On "Take 6", that's really different; religious lyrics in a jazzy groove, I like that. When I requested new groups of "Afro Blue's" caliber, I didn't realize how difficult that is, now I'm changing it to any time frame.
Rok, Anne Akiko Meyers is new to me, now I'm going to have to get everything she's put out; plus DVD's to gaze upon her foxy face, she's a treat for the eyes as well as the ears.
Enjoy the music.
|
You're just a sucker for a pretty face :-)
Agree about Take 6. Their first album was killer and nothing after was as good; a shame given their amazing talent. |
The best music videos ever??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrGw_cOgwa8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSb5Sd_FCJ4
Cheers |
Good call on Take 6. I have that CD and never thought of it earlier when I sent my recommendations.
They didn't live up to their potential. IMO. But 'MARY' is great. I expected them to be a better version of BOYZ II MEN.
Cheers |
Received and listened to today:
Anne Akiko Meyers -- THE FOUR SEASONS
I needed another Seasons like I need a hole in the head. BUT, she is a FOX, and lives in Austin. What's a Gentleman to do? Also her, AIR, The Bach Album, CD is absolutely awesome. And this one is great also. With the English Chamber Orch.
Nat King Cole Trio -- HIT THAT JIVE JACK
Good music ruined by tape hiss.
Cheers |
The Frogman:
The book:
"How to listen to Great Music"
"A Guide to its History, Culture, and Heart"
by Robert Greenberg
The title bothers me. Conceited bastard. He assumes we all agree on which music is GREAT.
Got it from Amazon.
The reviews were great, so I thought I would give it a try.
So far I like it.
Cheers |
|
Sounds like a great book, and I commend you for your passion and interest in the art. I agree with all that is stated in those quotes. I would only point out that art is, in fact, linear in the sense that what came before influences what will follow; but, I do agree that it is not linear in the sense that what follows is not necessarily better. I agree that Stravinsky and Schoenberg is not "better" than Mozart or Brahms; only a fool would claim that. Great art is, indeed, timeless. However, it would also be foolish to claim that there has been nothing after Mozart or Brahms that is of equal value. What distinguishes great art is not the value of what it attempts to portray (the times and society), but how well it portrays it; no matter how we may feel about the times and society.
BTW, what is the book? |
The Frogman:
Heated exchanges? You sure? :)
A couple of excerpts from the book.
"We would do well to avoid the notion that art is linear, and that,somehow it just keeps getting better as we go along. Certainly, art, and for us, music, gets different as it goes along."
"There is a reason why we turn to the paintings of Vermeer, the sculptures of Michelangelo,and the music of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms, to name just a few, in search of truth and edification, and it has nothing to do with nostalgia for the past. Great art is timeless, and it speaks to us, directly and relevantly, across time."
He pointed out, while talking about art not being linear, "......Stravinsky and Schoenberg better than what came before? Obviously not."
He also said, the more we know, the better we hear. :) Sound familiar? I think you said that also.
He is speaking of Classical Western Music, or Composed Music as he calls it. But all he said applies equally to all genres.
We go back to Ellington, Mingus and Morgan,etc... for the same reason we go back to Bach, Beethoven, etc......
Great book. And I'm just on page nine. :)
Cheers |
****I am currently reading a book about how classical music reflected the times and society in which it was written.****
Rok, I seem to recall having a rather heated exchange with you after I wrote those words in a post almost verbatim; actually, my comment was about music in general. That is one of the most basic tenets of musicology and something that if appreciated can give a lot of insight . Glad we are finally on the same page about this. See, we CAN agree :-) |
Hitiforhit: sorry, got your name wrong. |
HitforHit:
I agree with you about the drugs vs culture thing. I am currently reading a book about how classical music reflected the times and society in which it was written. I think Boxing changed for similar reasons.
I will check out the labels you listed. Old school Jazz by young guys with modern recording methods. Can't get any better than that.
Avant Garde can be very good. Dolphy and Kirk are too examples. But some others just seem to want to be weird just for the sake of being weird.
Thanks for the tip on Blades. I will investigate.
Welcome to the thread.
Cheers |
Ones I have:
African American Spirituals
The Concert Tradition
"Wade in the Water Vol 1"
Chanticleer
"How Sweet The Sound"
"Great American Spirituals"
Battle / Hendricks / Quivar
(slighty operatic) but you know Battle can do no wrong. :)
All three have Motherless Child. Very different versions.
Chanticleer
"Where the Sun Will Never go Down"
Awesome version of "Am I A Soldier of the Cross"
Downhome Southern 'Radio' Gospel:
Dixie Hummingbirds "LIVE"
MFSL Recording
Try the group, Sweet Honey In The Rock, and for the best of both worlds, Mahalia Jackson at Newport, and Jackson with Ellington.
Cheers |
Re: Nina Simone, I meant that she is Gritty.
And I haven't read the Jazz times article, but I will. Without reading it though, I think the times have changed. There are plenty of drugs around, but the younger jazz musicians don't have to face the same world now as the 1950's-1970's. Jazz is no longer a sub-culutre of society and our society does not draw from the hip culture of Jazz now. Jazz is un-cool to youth (I know, I teach them everyday). In my opinion, a more fair comparison to drugs and older Jazz culture would be Rap and Hiphop from the 1990's to the present. If we look at those musicians, then drugs are very prevalent and the music relevant. I'm going to read the article for more insight, but I think it's more cultural then drugs on why there isn't to much great jazz today.
I'll say this, Wayne Shorter's band was flat out amazing this last year and Brian Blade (his drummer on tour) has a new band and album out (on Blue note no less) that gives me hope. "Brian Blade and the Fellowship band" and for heavens sake if Brian Blade is within 100 miles of you do yourself a favor and do whatever you can to see him live. He is a breathtaking drummer to watch and listen too. Be forewarned listeners, his music leans towards the avant garde, experimental crowd, but there are plenty of fine piano melodies and some great structure, plus it just sounds amazing. If your a fan of Eric Dolphy, Jackie Mclean, and Andrew Hill then you should find Brian Blade a refreshing new artist.
Also, some cool newer jazz labels to explore which might be closer to the older jazz culture, but with more modern artists:
PI Records
Aum Fidelity
Thirsty Ear
Cryptogramophone
Is Bluenote coming back to the forefront….hmmm? |
Interesting article in May 2014 JAZZ TIMES magazine. "High Notes". Deals with drugs in Jazz. Seems as if drugs are no where near as prevalent today as they were back in the day.
Some suggest that the lack of drugs is reflected in, and has affected today's Music. :(
Damned it you do, damned if you don't.
Cheers |
Glad you guys enjoyed it. Acman3, I agree; the subtlety in his playing just keeps coming the more you listen.
Rok, WBGO is one of the treasures of the tri-state area. It's been broadcasting for quite a while and is probably the best of, sadly, only seven 24hr jazz stations left IN THE WORLD. |
The Frogman:
Great tune. Also, thanks for the WBGO tip. I looked it up online. Another source to hear great music. Red is playing with Paul Chambers and Art Taylor.
Just so happens I was listening to a CD today, with Chambers as leader and Taylor on drums. "Bass on Top". He does a lot of work with the Bow.
Bass as the lead soloist takes some getting used to. Seems like it weakens the rhythm section too much.
Burrell and Hank Jones rounded out the Quartet.
WBGO!! Culture in Newark. Who'd a thunk it.
Cheers |
Frogman, It just doesn't get any better than that. Red Garland is one of those talents you can listen to on many levels. Seems to be just playing simple song cords, but if you dig deeper into what he's doing you will always be rewarded. I've heard his stuff a hundred times and still hear new things. |
Frogman, that Red Garland is on my shopping list, thanks
Enjoy the music.
|
|
Although presently I'm focusing on jazz vocal groups, I'm also deeply moved by vocals of a religious persuasion, such as "Motherless Child" by Afro Blue. It seems that all of us were moved by that group.
Never before have I been moved by vocals, minus musical instruments, but they did it; they plumbed the emotional depths of "Motherless Child". While it's not easy finding new vocal groups of this caliber, I'm sure you guys can do it.
Enjoy the music.
|
Rok, glad you post you ravings on here,a fool like you would be dangerous in real time. |
No, you're not. That was beautiful. I especially liked "Motherless Child". Lovely blend and intonation. Thanks, O-10. |
****Rok, since you like vocals of the religious persuasion, here's one especially for you.******
Wunderbar!!! Maravilloso!!! Merveilleux!!! Wonderful!!!
Do you know how hard it is to find music like this, sung like this. Reminds me of the Fisk University folks.
And this appears to be a good source of other good music. I checked out the brass group also. Great stuff!!
I like the venue also. Intimate.
Our OP does not speak often, but when he does, wow!!
Thanks for the clip and site. I will visit it often.
And I suspect, I am not the only person here that likes "Vocals of the Religious Persuasion. :)
Cheers |
|
*****She's maybe a little more grimy, ***** I assume you meant to say 'Gritty'. I would hate to think of Nina as grimy. :)
I love the woman. Nina Simone is a unique talent. I would recommend the 4 CD set "Four Women" if you want to get into her music.
I don't consider London a Jazz singer. She is awesome at what she does, but I would not consider it Jazz.
I am not familiar with Johnny Dyani, but I will search him out. Thanks for the tip.
Cheers |
The 0-10:
Singers like these are my absolute favorite form of Jazz. But good ones are hard to find. I was hooked on LH&R from the day I first heard "Cloudburst". I was amazed because I heard and understood every word!!
The clip you sent with Bavan, sounds better than the stuff with Ross. Ross could get shrill at times. Hard on the ears. I think she ruined "sing a song of basie" by singing in an octave too high. I don't blame her, the arranger is at fault.
I knew of the arrival of Bavan, and I think I have one CD with her. I will search out the tune you sent. very nice.
The manhattan Transfer is my current favorite. The last one of theirs I bought was "swing". Excellent. They are with 'Stephane Grappelli' and 'Asleep at the Wheel'. I think the Swing refers to Texas Swing. Good Stuff. And last but not least, Janis Siegel is a FOX!
'The New York voices' are just a little bit too New Yorkish for my taste. Great voices, but the arrangements are too 'sophisticated'. I hesitate to use that word, might give The Frogman the big head.
The only other group like these that I am familiar with is 'The Swingle Singers'. Have them with MJQ and another with Oscar Peterson. Didn't like either. I think they are based in Europe.
Thanks for the lead on LH&B.
BTW, I get "Andy Bey and the Bey Sisters" tomorrow. Maybe I will have good news.
Cheers |
Acman3:
I have that CD. Now I will have to listen to it. Nice clip.
The Blind Boys of Alabama really shine on "The Gospel At Colonus" I have that CD and the DVD. Check it out.
Thanks for sharing.
Cheers |
|
*****There is no god or gods. All religions are BS.*****
A lot of people, sometimes referred to as 'armed mobs', have given their lives so you can believe as you please.
But, this is a music thread, and a Jazz one at that, and as we all know, the utilmate source of Jazz is religious music.
Therefore: keep it to yourself.
And if the countries that have renounced God are any indication, i.e. Nazi germany, Soviet Russia, Communist China, Castro's Cuba and North Korea, You should be on your knees thanking God there are God fearing people in this country.
Cheers |
Today's Listen:
Roland Kirk -- DOMINO
w/herbie hancock,andrew hill,wynton kelly,roy hanes
This guy is one heck of a Saxophone player. As wonderful as his antics are, he is much more than that.
25 Tracks. A lot of multi takes. Including something called a 'breakdown take'. But all are wonderful. A little chatter after each take. I love that. The last tune, "Time Races with Emit", is 22 seconds in length. hahah You gotta love this guy.
Nice shots of notes on the muscial scores. I think I would enjoy watching these guys rehearse as much as seeing them perform. They say some funny stuff.
Cheers |
Music is God's greatest gift to man, save his son... There is no god or gods. All religions are BS. |
****comments like this just encourage him.****
I don't think he needs encouragement, nor do I want to take on that role, but I think that kind of perspective is sorely missing in these discussions.
****you should always carry a card with the phone number of the New York Philharmonic, ****
Well, actually, I do; but, not for that reason.
****let the String section of the NYP not show up for work, and then let the gabarge collectors not show up for work!! See which wheel gets the grease.****
You might be surprised. You can look look up the numbers, but if memory serves, the recent sanitation worker's strikes in NYC lasted considerably longer than the most recent musicians strike, and one that I was involved with, the Broadway musicians strike . Now, I realize you referred to a NYP strike, but keep an eye on the Met Opera's labor/ management issues being dukes out as we "speak"; you just may have an answer very soon; unfortunately.
****Can feel and intuition in music ever be programed?**** - Acman3
Of course not!
****That is, to reconcile what you can do, with, what's in your head. In the book a lot of guys wished they could play what was in their heads.
I don't think I understand that statement. If you can think it or visualize it, what's to keep you from playing it. We are speaking of professional players, of course. Is it a physical thing?****
Remember that old favorite term of yours (mine)? "nuts and bolts" . What it takes to be able to execute what is in a musician's head: impossible to describe dedication, commitment, and years (life-long) of practice; and why they are underpaid. And, BTW, this does not apply only to jazz musicians. A classical player may have a perfectly clear idea of the tone he wants to produce, but there is no substitute for the practice.
****Check out his dress. Does not have anything to do with his playing, but it sure does look disrespectful. ****
I know Metheny; we went to the same conservatory. I assure you that lack of respect for the music or his elders is the last thing he is guilty of.
****This is true, but, the U.S. Art world is not blameless for this being the case.****
Now, things are getting interesting! |
****Society, especially here in the US, values the arts less and less******
This is true, but, the U.S. Art world is not blameless for this being the case.
Cheers |
Acman3, unfortunately musicians ARE being replaced by computers - have you heard of the new Virtual Orchestra? Absurd? Yes. Unfortunately, it is now a reality. Let us hope most audiences will not accept it in the future, right now that remains to be seen. It is a crying shame that most ballet companies in the US now dance to recordings rather than a live ensemble. Musicians everywhere have been protesting this, usually with the help of the dancers, but so far to very little effect.
Society, especially here in the US, values the arts less and less. Let's make a comparison to athletics. Musicians in the professional orchestras of this country have worked just as long and hard in their training, beginning at just as early of an age, as the professional athletes have, with odds as long of actual success in the field. We also use much weaker muscle groups that have to last for much longer careers. Yet the top athletes make many, many times what the top musicians do. I am a fairly big sports fan (soccer, basketball, tennis, swimming especially), so this is not said to denigrate athletes at all - I just wish that the arts were as appreciated in our society. |
Nice interview, and playing by Hall and Metheny. Pat mentioned something that was a recurring answer in Nica's book "Three Wishes". That is, to reconcile what you can do, with, what's in your head. In the book a lot of guys wished they could play what was in their heads.
I don't think I understand that statement. If you can think it or visualize it, what's to keep you from playing it. We are speaking of professional players, of course. Is it a physical thing?
Btw, what ever happened to Gabor Szabo? I have a lot of his stuff on LP.
I have the Metheny and Mays stuff on LP. But he didn't make the cut to CD. Jim Hall did. I think my favorite on guitar is Burrell.
Yesterday while listening to Cannonball, he talks alot on his albums, he mentioned the lack of blues in modern Jazz.
Did anyone notice that Hall wore a tie and Metheny didn't. Just saying. :)
Cheers |
Pointless but fun. As the man said, take with much salt.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/orchestra-569062-philharmonic-symphony.html
Cheers |
|
Acman3:
Well, I don't understand why Metheny didn't have a computer play his part. Should have been easy to do, based on his playing.
I hope this is nipped in the bud. What a sterile passionless thing.
Another thing that crossed my mind. These guys do not respect theirs elders or the pioneers in the music. Check out his dress. Does not have anything to do with his playing, but it sure does look disrespectful. It degrades the music. IMHO.
Can you imagine the NYP in jeans, tank tops and ball caps on sideways.
Thanks for the clip.
Cheers |
|
Can musicians be replaced by computers? Learsfool said all the younger players want to sound the same in the orchestra.
Can musicians play Bop?
Can feel and intuition in music ever be programed, or are they a human characteristic?
Do we even want them to be able to? |
Rok, you and reality are total strangers. |
|
If you did / do, not realize that the Germans have not changed one Iota since the Nazi era, you did not pay attention.
Lets get back to music. Jazz anyone?
Cheers |
Rok, no doubt much of what I say is nonsense to be sure.
I'ts clear I've not been blessed with your mental acuity.
But the one thing I've never been accused of is not paying attention . |
Rok2 Kid, since I was there and you were not ,how do you know?
In reality , many were murderous gangs , Armed mobs was a polite term. |
If you ever lived in Germany, you didn't pay attention.
and
your post is nonsense.
Cheers |
More thoughts . Germany, having learned that hate and militarism is for fools,is now perhaps the sanest of the large States.
In Germany a HS teacher makes 2/3 of what Docs do and has has more social prestige.
Any player in the Berlin Phil has more prestige than either.
The conductor is a half-step below God.
In Leipzig during the last stages of the GDR, Kurt Masur was God.
He walked the streets alone , telling people to be calm and non-violent, no one else could have done it. To this day a hallowed figure in eastern Germany. |
