Learsfool:
Thanks for all the info. Sad to learn that the bright dresses were a one off thing. I liked it. I went to the NYPO site looking for recordings. Slim pickings, but I will check out the other groups.
A few more questions:
(1)What is the normal path for becoming a conductor? I don't recall ever reading anything about the well known conductor's career prior to them becoming conductors. What are the prerequisites?
(2)Are people ever fired for sub-par playing etc...
(3) What sort of turn-over is there in the typical orchestra?. What is the most common cause of vacancies? Is there a waiting list?
(4) What is the FUNDAMENTAL difference between the top and the second tier orchestras.
(5) Who OWNS orchestras?
(6) Pay scale. Who gets what? Ball park.
Thanks for all your time and input.
Cheers
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Rok, this is kind of late, but it might stop my torture next year. Christmas is all about "childhood" memories now that I'm and old man. I don't even like the Christmas jazz music in my own collection anymore. Here's a Christmas song that holds fond memories of my youth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJSUT8Inl14Enjoy the music. |
Hi Orpheus - that's a nice story. There are good and bad repair guys, sounds like you had a good one. Many musicians will fly across the country to have a certain person work on their instrument. I am lucky to have one of the very best in my immediate area. It's about time for my annual cleaning, now that I think about it.
The best ones are usually former or current players themselves, though the repair would be their main work. Some teach on the side as well.
As for the system you heard there, most musicians that are into hifi gravitate to old school tubes and horn speakers once they have heard them. Still the closest thing out there for reproducing timbre, dynamics, (softs, too) etc. I know a few who like the electrostats, too, but those are much more finicky. Horns are so much easier to deal with. And I agree that much of what is supposedly state of the art really doesn't sound very good at all in comparison, assuming we are talking about reproducing acoustic instruments or voices that were recorded in a good, live space. Folks that only listen to mostly or entirely electronically produced (and studio produced) music will not care so much about the things the old school equipment can do, and that's fine. Different strokes for different folks, depends on what your priorities are. |
Leersfool, when I took my son's alto sax to the music store for sale, the owner gave me a price, and told me he would pay a lot more if I took it to the St. Louis Woodwinds and Brass Instrument Repair, and get a clean bill of health.
There was only one person ahead of me when I arrived. Someone was explaining every detail of what was wrong with her horn, and what it would take to repair it.
That can't take but a minute I thought, but he seemed to go on and on. Fortunately the wait was a pleasant one. This was in a very large open room, with a long counter separating the customers from the instrument repair specialists at their separate work stations.
As I sat in a comfortable chair listening to classical music and watching the men at work, I began to experience the calm this place exuded. Whether the person was working on woodwind or brass, he seemed to have an attachment to that particular instrument as he played a few quiet notes for testing. The calm expressions on their faces indicated to me, there was nothing else that they would rather be doing, or no place else they would rather be than here; consequently, what they were doing didn't fit the definition of "work".
Although I'm not particular fond of classical, I liked this music. While I couldn't see the rig, the mellow tube sound that was the antithesis of ARC, indicated it was probably old refurbished electronics. The speakers were custom horn, probably very efficient. I liked this sound much better than what I've heard that was supposedly state of the art.
I had gotten fairly comfortable when, "Can I help you"?
"Yes, I have an alto sax I would like you to go over"
That exchange brought me back to the reason I was there. After examining the horn, he explained every detail that was wrong, and told me I could wait, which I didn't mind at all.
There were photos on the wall of local jazz musicians which I instantly recognized, plus the classical musicians from different venues in the city. All of these photos were of musicians who had their instruments worked on here. There were even photos of world famous musicians. The fact that they all had been here and had their instruments worked on was quite impressive.
When they called me to the counter for the bill, it was less than I expected. After I took the horn to the music store with a clean bill of health, he gave me more than I expected; that was a good day.
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Orpheus, to answer your question first - yes, it is normally just called "the horn," and everyone knows that that means French horn. There's really nothing French about it, and no one knows why it acquired that name in the first place. The International Horn Society officially changed the name of the instrument back in the 70s to Horn. Of course, many of the general public are totally unaware of this. But if a classical musician or classical music lover mentions "the horn," they are definitely talking about my instrument (shame on them if not, they should know better, LOL).
Rok - if the women in the NY Phil were wearing brightly colored dresses, this was certainly a special occasion. That is definitely NOT normal, and they do not normally do it, I assure you. Black is the norm, whether very formal or less so sometimes now. I think that was a special New Year's Eve or New Year's Day thing, if I remember?? I did hear about that concert.
The Vienna Phil is pretty much the last standing all-male orchestra, and even they have had a couple of women in their ranks in the last couple of decades. I believe their current harpist is female, but I think that's it at the moment.
There are a great many women in all US orchestras now, and in most around the rest of the world as well. Even on my instrument, the majority of students at the top music schools in the country are female, and this is slowly beginning to be reflected in the professional ranks.
There are many CDs available of many US orchestras, and yes, the best ones are as good as any in the world. Which are the top ten would still generate furious debate (either speaking of the whole world, or just US orchestras). The five you mentioned are the traditional "big five" US orchestras, but there are at least three others who merit very serious consideration (to be in the top five, I mean). The Pittsburgh Symphony is certainly top ten in the world right now, as is the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra. Other great American orchestras are Minnesota (what is happening there is an absolute travesty), LA, San Francisco, National, Detroit, Atlanta, St. Louis, Dallas, Cincinnati. All of these are considered top tier groups. There are a great many second tier groups which are also world class ensembles - Baltimore, Houston, Nashville, Fort Worth, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Utah. I could go on, I have left a few out. I do play in one of the ones I have listed, though I do not want to say which, as I want to maintain relative anonymity here, so I can feel free to post what I like about conductors, orchestras, musicians, etc., without fear of offending colleagues. I did NOT list these groups in any sort of ranking order, by the way. I have friends in all of them...
About the recordings, most orchestras now self-produce their recordings, so you would need to go to their websites to find current recordings for all but the very largest groups. Also, a great way to check out different orchestras and what they are doing is to see if they stream old concerts, or live ones. Or go online and find their local radio stations that do their broadcasts. You can listen to so many more orchestras nowadays this way than ever before. |
Beautiful enough to make even O-10, get 'ligion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkUoxCGPWrw
Cheers |
Comments welcomed. I don't have the words!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XIjGei8zG8
Cheers |
Rok, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and since I'm a very old dog, that goes double for me; however, I'm trying to find some old tricks, that may be applicable to the new ones you're trying to teach me. "Carmen" is the very first to come to mind. I recall when I was a preteen, this family with a very beautiful daughter named Carmen, liked to perform this in the park nearby. Although she was a teenager, which made her much older than me, I was in love; consequently, I also fell in love with the opera "Carmen". This family also liked "Bolero", consequently I fell head over heels in love with "Bolero"; here are the both of them. (I was too shy to even speak to Carmen) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPQ2lFUQLrs&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL-wyNyb4oUIHMjqwxFAltjklxWrZZZGS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KgpEru9lhwEnjoy the music. |
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Learsfool:
Last Night, the local PBS station aired the New York Philharmonic with Yo-Yo Ma. The program featured music by Osvaldo Golijov, an Argentinian Composer.
The Music was entitled 'Azul'. I thought it was much ado about nothing, but Yo-Yo makes anything sound at least interesting.
After that experiment, they played Tangos by Piazzolla. Ma has made CDs of Tangos before. It was great stuff.
The program ended with Ravel's Bolero. EVERYONE likes Bolero, Except, of course, Ravel!
I noticed that most of the wonem in the Orchestra wore brightly colored dresses. Very nice effect. I contrasted that with DVDs I have recently watched, Vienna, which had NO women, and Berlin, which had their women dressed like the men.
I like the American way much better. I also noticed that it seemed as if more than half of the violin section was female.
How do the top American Orchestras compare with the best Europeans in the world today?? I don't think you can buy CDs by American groups, so I have not heard them recently. Are they still as good as they used to be?
I used to know the names of all the conductors of NY, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland and Philadelphia. Not now.
Cheers
Regular trumpets in use also. :) |
Leersfool, although I liked all three, it was apparent that Jim Varner was the baddest, he blows and handles that horn like some of the best jazz tenor sax players. I sincerely appreciate your input, it's helping me to get a feel for the French horn, or do musicians just say "The horn" and everyone knows they're referring to "the French horn"? This is the first thing that caught my ear after midnight, it's James Moody's, "Last Train From Overbrook". Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=028UoUkO7zcEnjoy the music. |
Orpheus - Miles used horn on quite a few of his albums - I believe I have mentioned Birth of the Cool already in this thread. We also discussed horn in jazz quite a while back. I know I have mentioned Julius Watkins and that same album in your first link above. He is the most famous jazz horn player from that era, and probably ever. He was usually what they call a side man, but did record some albums as leader of a group, like that one. Those arrangements, by the way, were all done by Quincy Jones, and the quartet of "back up horns" included two of the most famous classical players in New York at the time, Gunther Schuller and John Barrows. Gunther Schuller is still alive, and still teaching and writing music (he is also a composer). I have met him before, and most hornists own a copy of his famous horn method book.
The third link you posted is Tom Varner, who is currently the leading jazz hornist in the world. There are only a handful of players who make their living doing it, and he is one of them. I haven't ever met him, but we have chatted online on horn websites. Nice guy, and good player.
No idea who the guy in the second link is, and it doesn't say. He is obviously not an improviser, since even though he did write that tune, he is using music (as is the pianist and even that guitar player). That one is not my cup of tea anyway, with the electric guitar and electronic keyboard. Although he is a decent enough player, I was not particularly impressed. Certainly not the level of player (or musician) in the other two links. |
Rok - another thing I thought of on the person playing no instrument - it may be the third bassoon/contrabassoon player, who didn't happen to play on that particular piece, but is on stage because he played something else on that half of the program. His instrument is probably on a stand next to him. |
O-10:
Start the New Year off right!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNnplwRbS8U
Cheers |
Learsfool:
****The problem is the guy who has the music would want to play, and he kinda sucks, so, my friend doesn't want him to play, so he won't loan us the music. Sigh.****
Nothing better than starting the day off with a good laugh! I had to LOL when I read that statement. Haven't heard of that since my play-ground days. It always Seemed as if the guys that could not play very good, owned the ball. Must be a natural law.
Thanks for all the info, esp about the trumpets. I may have asked about the composers before, but I needed to hear it again, to be sure!! No wonder they are called Geniuses.
I looked at the DVD again, and the guy in the headset is there. Right next to the Bassoon players. When the camera zoomed in on the bassoons, there he was. I guess it was some tech thingy since the program was being recorded in audio and video. But he was dressed in white tie. They were playing "Troika", from Lieutenant Kije, if that would mean anything. The DVD was "A Carnegie Hall Christmas Concert"
On the Karajan New Years concert in Vienna, when the camera panned the audience, I was surprised at the number of people that did not applaud after each number. Just set there. After all, this was KARAJAN!!
Thanks again
Cheers |
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Hi Rok: to answer your questions:
1. Not sure what you mean here, exactly, without seeing it. Doesn't make much sense, frankly. I am assuming it is not a singer? Are you sure it is headphones and a mike?
2. You are seeing rotary-valve trumpets. The same type of valves used on my instrument, the French horn. They have a darker sound, and are more widely used in Europe than they are over here, though sometimes players here will use them, especially in rep like Brahms where they want a darker sound.
3. Yes. Always. There are a couple of exceptions which I believe we discussed long ago in this thread, if I am remembering correctly. Baroque musicians add ornaments to their parts in certain places, and the continuo part was always improvised by the keyboardist - only the bass notes and the chord symbols were provided. Another exception would be the cadenza of a concerto, which in the classical and even into the romantic era would be made up on the spot by the soloist, just like jazz improvisation, except the melodies will be based on melodies in the movement in question, though the harmonies are often changed radically. There are still some soloists who do this in performance today, though not many anymore. But for exceptions like these, however, the answer to your question is a flat yes, until well into the twentieth century, when composers started experimenting with "chance" music, etc.
To elaborate further, the same would go for film music, unless it is someone like Morricone, who wrote many of the spaghetti westerns. All he did was write the melodies and harmonies, and someone else orchestrated it.
And as I am pretty sure we have discussed long ago in this thread, even in jazz the only thing truly being improvised normally are the solos - and these are almost always based on standard tunes - very little is truly freely improvised, someone making up whatever they want. All the musicians know the chord structures used in the tunes, so even jazz is not so mysterious as it may seem. They even have things called "Fake Books" which are books that have the chord structures of all the tunes - these are particularly useful in the case of performers who are not in a regular group, thrown together for a gig, maybe none of them have even played together before. They would discuss ahead of time which tunes they will do (or even during breaks on the gig, before the next set), and reference a Fake Book if they need to. Instrumentation is generally much more flexible in jazz as well. Now in a big band, for example, everything would be written out for everyone except the solos. This is even done on something like Miles Davis Birth of the Cool, where you have a larger ensemble - much of that was written out. There were a couple of horn players on that album, by the way. A friend of mine is trying to put a group together to recreate that album, and I hope to participate if that ever happens. The problem is the guy who has the music would want to play, and he kinda sucks, so, my friend doesn't want him to play, so he won't loan us the music. Sigh. |
Since one of our Gurus who wasn't gone is back, I'm going to look into his suggestions, as well as yours. While opera and classical music are new to me, it could be an interesting adventure; you lead and I'll follow.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
Nice enough tune, by Gato Barbieri. Don't know If I could listen to an entire album. Listened to the Soundtrack of 'Last Tango in Paris'. Don't see what all the hype is about there either.
In the early 70's, I was in El Paso, jamming with WAR and EW&F etc... A Jazz wasteland, although WAR did do a 'Jazz' album. During that time, I did get to hear some good live Jazz in Tucson. Great party town then.
Didn't fully get back on board with Jazz until 1977, when back in Europe.
I do have Gato Barbieri on LP, but he didn't make the cut to CD.
Cheers |
O-10:
I agree about the quality of the recordings. In fact, when I first heard them, I assumed something was wrong with them. Maybe the high frequencies were missing or something like that. Nothing that cheap, could sound that good. But, you got it right.
Cheers |
The Learsfool:
All of your comments on Opera were excellent. I remembered Mozart the moment I hit the 'submit' button. But, as we are just getting started, and, as in Jazz, you gotta get them hooked first. I will save him for a later day.
Questions:
(1) I have recently aquired a few Classical DVDs. I noticed in each of them, a man sitting in the middle of the orchestra wearing a headphone with mike thingy. He was dressed as a member but did not have an instrument. What is that all about? His purpose?
(2) I noticed that the trumpets look different than those I am used to. The keys / valves are now horizontal, not vertical. What's that all about? Why the change?
(3) When a composer writes a piece music, say one of Beethoven's symphony, does he write the part, every note, for each and every instrument in the entire Orchestra?
Thanks
Cheers |
O-10:
Classical recommendations, to get you started.
Orchestral:
Beethoven 5&7 - Wiener Philharmoniker / Carlos Kleiber
Beethoven 9th - Wiener Philharmoniker / Karl Bohm with Jessye Norman, Brigitte Fassbaender and Placido Domingo
Mozart - There is just so much here!! But you gotta start somewhere. Two that I own: Symphonies 25,26,27,29 & 32 Academy of St Martin-in-the Fields / Neville Marriner
And Symphonies 35 - 41, Berliner / Karl Bohm. Mozart's symphonies were short compared to most others.
Chamber:
I would recommend any one of the Mozart 'Philips Duo' series. You get a composer's 'complete' works on two cds, for the price of one. Such as complete violin concertos, or complete Piano sonatas etc.... On the Philips label. Top tier performers and performances. Best bargains in Classical music. Found on Amazon.
That should hold you until your next be-bop attack!
These recommendations are not meant to be the definitive performances. And are just two, of many, many, Classical Composers. Just a good starting place.
Remember this, A true Jazz Aficionado, will love classical music also. :)
Cheers |
Rok, we never even got to the 70's. While I liked what we've been into, this was just the beginning of "modern jazz"; it had to evolve, and so it did. As a matter of fact, when a current jazz artist attempt to resurrect that music, it sounds redundant and unoriginal to me. While jazz evolved in the 70's, it was still jazz. The first of many artists that emerged in this time frame, that I would like to cover is "Gato Barbieri"; his soundtrack for "Last Tango In Paris" received widespread acclaim. This is from an LP I was listening to, I think you'll like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UAT_nV9gl0Enjoy the music. |
LOL, Rok - no sulking or pouting going on here! Haven't had a lot of time to be on this site over the holidays. If you like tenors, probably my all time favorite would be Jussi Bjorling, a Swedish tenor from the 50's early 60's. I have several of his LPs, and I am sure there are plenty of youtube things if you want to check him out that way. Fantastic voice, along with incredible musicianship and fabulous breath control. Try to find one of his recordings of Nessun Dorma.
Puccini in general is a good place for opera newbies to start. Tosca is probably my favorite, other super popular ones are La Boheme, Madame Butterfly.
A glaring omission from your short list would be Mozart. A great first opera is his comedy The Marriage of Figaro. Also Don Giovanni, though that's not a comedy (has many very funny moments, though). The Magic Flute is one of the most sublime operas ever written, though some find the story very silly. |
I hope you like these, if not, you may find it rough going in Opera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTFUM4Uh_6Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP1951ZxIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kbi1EMcD3E
Cheers |
The easy part first: OPERA :)
Don't jump in, stick your big toe in first! To see if you really like opera singing I will recommend ones I own.
PAVAROTTI'S GREATEST HITS
Has him at his peak (1980) singing the greatest Arias from the greatest Operas. This is a 2-CD set on the Decca label. On Amazon for $12.25!! This is great singing period! Placido Domingo has a few CDs of this type also. There is a reason excerpts of Operas are produced, because all you really need is the Arias. The rest of it, you have to be there to enjoy or 'get it'.
On the Soprano front:
Maria Callas, Jessye Norman, Kathleen Battle et al, have similar records. Not the whole Opera, just the 'good parts'. :) I have, and recommend:
Maria Callas -- LA DIVINA 3
To my taste, the Tenor Arias in Operas are much more enjoyable than the Sopranos.
If you like any of these, remember always get the 'highlights' of the Opera. I would start with the popular stuff like, TOSCA, CARMEN, and BARBER of SEVILLE.
A little Opera goes a long way with me, so I don't stray too far from the well known stuff.
Don't forget Opera on DVD. I just received The Barber of Seville with Kathleen Battle at the Met. Have not watched it yet. Will let you know.
Will send Classical recommendations later.
Cheers |
Rok, you're moving too fast. The recording quality on these 100 best tunes is better than anything I've ever heard on LP or CD. As Nica would say "Just listen to the music Rok", and that's what I'm doing. When music is this well recorded, you can hear things that you didn't hear the first time, and the recording quality has been a problem with so much jazz, that I just can't stop listening to these tunes. Trying to find something by Wardell Gray was an adventure in bad recording.
Enjoy the music.
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Maybe our Gurus will come back, but in the meantime we'll have to wing it. Since I need a change, I'm willing to give "your" Classical Music and Opera a try; where do I start?
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
I fully understand that this is a Jazz thread. In spite of that, now that I have 'discovered' Classical Music and Opera performed on DVD, I have a million questions. Who / where do we go for question time?? Seeing as how both of our resident Classical gurus are off somewhere sulking / pouting.
Cheers |
Rok, I had forgoten about Nog, but now I'm going to double up and get a little Grog for the Nog.
I searched long and hard for something I would add to my collection by Wardell, but had no success for one reason or another, none of them to do with Wardell's talents.
Although his sound on swing was really appealing, there wasn't enough of it. While he could Bop with the best, I've got enough of that by Bird and Diz.
He had a special sound that I couldn't get enough of, but the cuts were too short. "Easy Living" was a tune that I liked which exemplified that easy swing sound of his that I liked. If I could find a CD with long cuts, and that "easy swing sound", it would be the match I'm looking for; but that's doubtful because "showmanship", like in "The Chase" by him and Dexter Gordan was popular.
Wardell had a special sound, but nothing I found displayed enough of it. I would be satisfied with a solo album where Wardell played for "Wardell". In my opinion, he never really found himself, or made the decision that "This is who I am", because he had it together, he just didn't know it and take command. Miles is an example of knowing who you are, and taking command of things. When I heard Miles at the time when Clifford was alive, I wasn't too fond of his music, along with a lot of other people, but that didn't faze Miles (not that he asked me) because he knew who he was. Wardell just didn't live long enough to discover that the man in the mirror had all the answers to his musical success.
Enjoy the music.
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Damn O-10, you better lay off that egg nog, or at least the stuff you put in it!! (Old Crow?)
We can all be thankful that Wynton Marsalis got the gig at Lincoln Center. Who else could have done it?? A great representative for Jazz.
The man is at home in all musical settings and venues. All genres also. His playing on 'Silent Night', had me screaming!!! This guy is awesome!! And Wycliffe looks like he is out of central casting, as a trombone player is a Chicago speakeasy. The entire group looks 'Jazz'.
I looked at all my Benny Goodman and Dexter Gordon and Count basie CDs, and could not find Wardell Gray on any of them. I will have to order one from Amazon.
A Merry Christmas to you also. And to all 'Aficionados'.
Cheers |
)-10:
Gray seems to have been quite a talent, who may have placed family before Jazz. So why is he, and his contribution to Jazz almost invisible?
Interesting Documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUhfubHKSAY
Nice clip Acman3. You do have an ear for the good stuff.
Cheers |
I am completely lacking in my Wardell Gray music. I did hear this guy named Ian Hendrickson-Smith playing a great song on flute today. Has Philip Harper on trumpet( Harper Brothers) and Lonnie Liston Smith on Organ. This is the only thing I saw at this time. A couple of older videos show he sets a big groove and nice tone. http://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=JhM67x4Phw4 |
O-10:
Great photos of Gray with Goodman and other greats. He held his sax similar to the way Lester Young held his.
http://search.aol.com/aol/imageDetails?s_it=imageDetails&q=wardell+gray&v_t=keyword_rollover&b=image%3Fq%3Dwardell%2520gray%26s_it%3Dkeyword_rollover%26ie%3DUTF-8%26VR%3D3430%26oreq%3D7412f975cac8485fa70fb1c4a83bf4d1&img=http%3A%2F%2Fwardellgray.org%2Fimages%2FBennyGoodmanRayBrownWardellGrayChuckWayneStanHassegard.jpg&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwardellgray.org%2Fphotogalleryp2.html&width=99&height=75&thumbUrl=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcR3i2X7lwzPBtlXqtKKVq0t1ZWzLK0VdBORw_OdMUm4RDepNcUDRQp5iN0&imgWidth=863&imgHeight=657&imgSize=386869&imgTitle=wardell+gray
Cheers |
I'm sure he concentrated on his nuts, I don't know about the bolts.
HAVE YOURSELF A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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O-10:
I will research Wardell also. Currently listening to / watching, Marsalis, von Stade and Battle. If you did not get that DVD, shame on you.
The second act is almost a Jazz set. And she is hitting on Wynton the whole time. It's a wonder the boy could concentrate on his Nuts and bolts! :)
I will be watching this one, all year.
Cheers |
Rok, I'll find out what's available by Wardell, and you can review any "you tubes" you find. If you find something you like, I'll let you know if it's available on CD.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, "Wardell Gray" is our next project; he's a name that I remember from that summer in Chigago; cuz only selected the best, and that was a time and place when and where the best was readily available.
Our job is to find the music I remember, which won't be easy because so much is out of print. First we have to find what's available, and select from that. I'm positive this will be worth the effort.
Enjoy the music.
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*****Rok, some of these "100 Best Jazz Tunes of The 1950's" sound better than my recordings, and that includes vinyl, although I'll have to split hairs on the vinyl, and if it's necessary to go back and forth to decide; that means the CD's are better when you take all things into consideration*****
"And in the end times, They too, shall see the light."
Book of Rok: Chapter 3, Verse 7.
Cheers |
*****Branford Marsalis is the only famous jazz musician I can recall with an Audiophile rig, and his wasn't anywhere near the rigs these people have here. What does that say about audiophile rigs, and professional jazz musicians?****
It might say that, they know how LIVE sounds, and that no system sounds LIVE, so why not get, a pleasant to listen to, modest system, that does not sound LIVE, as oppposed to getting a mega-buck system, that does not sound LIVE. Unless of course, the mega-buck system sounds mo'better not LIVE!
I remember those articles from 'Stereo Review' back in the day. I was amazed that my Sansui Based system was the equal of most of the system's of the professionals.
I decided that, if a real Jazz player could be happy with a Receiver and Mini Advent speakers, why couldn't I??
Cheers |
Rok, some of these "100 Best Jazz Tunes of The 1950's" sound better than my recordings, and that includes vinyl, although I'll have to split hairs on the vinyl, and if it's necessary to go back and forth to decide; that means the CD's are better when you take all things into consideration.
Enjoy the music.
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I have the CD 'At Basin Street' and 'Plus Four'. Listening to Basin Street now. Thanks for all the info in your posts. Here is the review from Amazon.
Amazon.com
"The Clifford Brown-Max Roach quintet was already one of the best in modern jazz, but when they added Sonny Rollins to the fray in late 1955, it became a lineup for the ages. Basin Street, recorded in early 1956, marks the studio debut of Rollins with the band, and the result is a supercharged highlight of the postbop era. The three furiously paced standards that kick off the set feature superb blowing and crafty arrangements that offer spontaneous intros and rhythmic shifts. Of special note are the contributions of pianist Richie Powell, Bud's younger brother, who not only adds three excellent compositions (the intricate "Powell's Prances," the poignant "Time," and the irresistibly catchy "Gertrude's Bounce"), but also proves himself to be a standout soloist and accompanist. Of course, Brown's bright tone and remarkably fluid ideas are in full bloom as well. Sadly, the quintet would record only once more (Plus 4, issued under Rollins's name) before the June 1956 accident that claimed the lives of Brown and Powell." --Marc Greilsamer
Cheers |
Clifford Brown was killed in 56, not 55. I got that wrong because my cousin had a 55 Chevie, and I remember it as new, but it was a year old. We were cruisin Chicago in the Summer time like it was new when that accident involving Clifford, Richie, and Richard's wife occurred. That was a sad time because my cousin bought every Roach and Brown record as soon as it hit the record store. |
'Delilah' was a nice tune. All the folks on Amazon were impressed as well. Here is an interesting excerpt from the Amazon Site Reviewer:
Amazon.com
"Many a young musician has been sabotaged by his own considerable abilities. So caught up are they in technical execution that they give elements such as emotion and taste short shrift. Trumpeter Clifford Brown was a musical dynamo, a man who was capable of playing many instruments well and who possessed supreme natural instincts and boundless energy. Brown painstakingly practiced and perfected his technique, but when practice time gave way to playing time--there was no other time for him--Brown's command was so deeply ingrained that he was free to concentrate on those other elements: emotion and taste."...............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Puts a smile on my face!! :)
I ordered it today. Seems like one I should have. Thanks for the tip / clip.
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Rok, you can enjoy and appreciate the musicians in our book if you just stick with one group for awhile. Right now I'm into Roach and Brown primarily for "Richie Powell", who was Bud Powell's younger brother. He didn't live long enough to record on his own, consequently you have to listen to him with Roach and Brown which isn't a bad deal.
Miles said Roach was never quite the same after Brown died, and I agree; at any rate I'm really enjoying what I can find on you tube with Roach, Brown and Powell.
Enjoy the music.
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Stereophile magazine interviewed Max in his apartment overlooking Central Park, not long before he died which was in 07, and I recall him mentioning the chair in his living room was one Bird had sat in. Naturally he had a decent rig, but it wasn't "Audiophile". Like I stated before, none of the jazz or blues musicians I've known had audiophile rigs; not that I've known a lot, but think about it, these musicians were always on a live set, why would they have a finicky audiophile system.
John Lee Hooker said he liked a "funky sound", and something easy to work. He wanted to hear music when he pushed the "on button", that's why he had the same kind of "Adcom" in all of his houses.
Since These musicians were interviewed by Stereophile you can look them up, but Branford Marsalis is the only famous jazz musician I can recall with an Audiophile rig, and his wasn't anywhere near the rigs these people have here. What does that say about audiophile rigs, and professional jazz musicians?
Enjoy the music.
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Max Roach was no doubt the best dresser, not only in this book, but throughout his entire career. He was on top of the world until Clifford Brown was killed in that accident, in 55. For a while after that, he just couldn't get it together. The love between compatible musicians is incomprehensible. I almost got in a fight with a well known professional jazz musician I will not name, simply because he asked me questions about a another jazz musician that he had made records with and loved, and I told him the truth. (this was personal, nothing to do with music) He got mad and began an argument in front of a night club, telling me that couldn't be true. Naturally the bouncer and the club owner, who didn't have a clue as to what this was about, assumed I was in the wrong.
Much later I understood what I had told him was something he didn't want to believe, but he knew it was true, he just took his frustrations out on me.
The reason I tell you this is because we will never understand that love between musicians; but it took Roach a long time to get it together after that, can you find a date for his answer to that question.
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***** "Who you gonna satisfy with that little thing", and he replied with great gusto, ME!*****
Well, if I had known they were a bunch of blabber mouths, I would not have gone there in the first place. I'll take my business elsewhere in the future. But the girls were from Nawlins, and the piano player was the second coming of Jelly Roll!! Great stuff all around!!
Masx Roach from the book:
"wishes would be a superfluous luxury for me, because I have everything I desire. That's the most important thing in the world."
Do you think his music, and playing, reflect that contentment?
Max Roach seemed to come across as more 'sophisticated' or educated, than the average guy at Nica's. For sure a better dresser. But that could be a function of finances.
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I was listening to "Delilah" by Max Roach, and Clifford Brown, when it hit me that not a single note was wasted by any of the musicians. That's my opinion, "To thine self be true", is the philosophical advice I've been given by the hippest of the hip, and Nica may have said something to that effect, but whether she said it or not, she certainly lived it, and that's an even more profound statement.
There is "nothing" about music that's not subjective, it's not necessary to learn one single solitary note in order to enjoy music, and I have zero intention of learning one single solitary note. Although it may be true that musicians enjoy music more than none musicians, this "non musician" is doing quite well, thank you.
Each one of those musicians on the "Brown and Roach" record probably knew "Charley Parker" personally. Before I even knew what jazz was, when I heard Bird, it was like music from heaven, message sent, message received; and that could explain why those musicians are so coherent to me.
"Loud fast and empty"; that was your sincere opinion, and since all music is subjective, that was the way that music affected you, and "you" don't listen for me or anybody else; you're like that guy who went to a house of ill repute, and was asked the question, "Who you gonna satisfy with that little thing", and he replied with great gusto, ME!
Enjoy the music.
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**** Now that I don't have to write about music, I can just listen and reminisce about better times****
I know the feeling!!!! :)
I can swaer that I NEVER wore Argyle socks! But I remember Pink and Black being a hot combination. Even in automobiles.
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