Hi guys, been away from this board for a few days. Frogman, that was a very interesting Ornette Coleman clip, never seen that before.
Rok - you recently reviewed perhaps my favorite Ella album - the 40th Birthday Concert. If anyone out there reading this has not heard that, it is a must. There are so many great moments in that. No other jazz singer has ever sounded anywhere near as good, IMO. |
Yes, THAT Greenspan. In Leonard Garment's (attorney and top advisor to Nixon during Watergate) biography "Crazy Rhythm: From Brooklyn And Jazz To Nixon's White House, Watergate, And Beyond", there is a very funny picture of a big band; in the reed section, at opposite ends, are the tenor players: Leanard Garment and Alan Greenspan.
Agree re Ayn Rand. |
The Frogman:
Are we talking about Federal Reserve, Greenspan? If so, I guess I could see him playing tenor sax, in his younger days.
***“The worst part of Ms. Rand's parties was Mr. Greenspan running around naked in the lobby.”***
That would be the worst part of anything I can imagine. That's too awful to contemplate, even by New York standards. Unless, he under-went one hell of a metamorphosis from youth to old age.
The Baroness definitely had better taste in Be-Boppers. :)
Of course, Ms Rand was no raving beauty. But a brilliant mind!
Cheers |
“She really liked younger men. Sometimes we would take off our clothes and listen to jazz.”
~ Alan Greenspan on Ayn Rand
Rok, in case you didn't know, Alan Greenspan was a jazz tenor player.
“The worst part of Ms. Rand's parties was Mr. Greenspan running around naked in the lobby.”
~ Doorman at 36 E 36th Street on Ayn Rand
:-) |
O-10:
The Ursula Dudziak clip was interesting, but not my thing. Why does she have trouble with words?
I see she was born in Poland in 1943. Tough time and place to be born!
If you have three books by and about the Jazz Baroness, you must find her very interesting. I think I saw her on the documentary about Monk.
She was 'married off', by her family, to a French control freak. Can you image what that was like? Came to America and didn't go back. I don't blame her. She was disowned by the family, but apparently she got her share of the money. I think "Rothschild" means money, in all languages. Drove a Bentley!
Were they having sex? Here is a multiple choice answer.
1. Yes
2. Absolutely
3. Without doubt
4. all of the above
These were Jazz Musicins!! And that does not make them 'animalistic'!!! hahhhahah Your Baptist is showing. :)
I have quite a few books by Ayn Rand, my favorite author. She changed my outlook on life. I bet she loved Jazz.
Cheers |
Rok, I've got three books by and about "Nica". "Three Wishes" is the only one worth the freight. From a story book point of view, her life was far more interesting before she became "The Jazz Baroness".
The rumors that she was intimate with "black" jazz musicians constantly swirled around her; especially after Bird died in her apartment, and she never attempted to stop any of them; with so many musician friends, it would have been pointless.
In regard to her intimacies, including with Bird, no one has evidence of "any". Everyone who knew, including Bird, said their relationship was purely platonic. The alleged musicians, beside Monk of course, said they wished the rumors were true.
Stop and think about it, she was a 42 year old Baroness with 5 kids when Bird died in her apartment. While it's not uncommon for people of different races to become intimate, "Class" is another matter. Once people get past their animalistic youth, they take a great deal more consideration into "intimacies". A 42 year old Baroness would have instilled requirements in regard to someone she chose to become intimate with. It's my opinion, and I stress that fact without one iota of evidence, that none of the musicians, black or white met her instilled requirements for intimacy.
Musicians put it differently, they said that after having 5 kids, she wasn't interested in such things. Now you can scratch the other two books off your list.
Enjoy the music.
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Jon Hendricks gets my vote for "The King of Scat". I bought "Jon Hendricks and Friends" after you recommended it Rok. Ursula Dudziak is a very unusual vocalist I've been enjoying lately, and she's not new, I just discovered her again while browsing through my old LP's. Since she doesn't like words, this is Ursula. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1W-Tr5dzyIEnjoy the music. |
This is special.
A CARNEGIE HALL CHRISTMAS CONCERT (DVD)
Kathleen Battle, Frederica von Stade, Wynton Marsalis (septet) Andre Previn.
You must have it. Not only will you be treated to a great performance, you will probably be smitten by the foxes doing the singing. They were so into it.
Marsalis was brilliant!! A young Wynton. This was done 22 years ago. His work, arrangements, are always so tastefully and appropriately done.
It is great. Had me and the wife tearing up. Don't pass on this one!! Make sure you have it. You won't regret it.
Cheers
Why is all the good stuff performed in NYC? I ain't trying to start nuttin', I'm just saying!
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The Frogman:
I have that CD by Jon Hendricks. Jon Hendricks and Friends. A lot of big time people on the set. Turrentine, Marsalis, Basie and of course McFerrin and Benson.
I remember the first time I heard him do 'cloudburst'. WOW! That was with Lambert, Hendricks, & Ross. One of the best Jazz LP covers. Just oozes New York sophistication. Love the mike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDbAsndZGW0
Cheers |
O-10:
Nice clip of Rawls. Back in the day we would say, the boy is strung out! I felt sort of sorry for him.
I probably would not have received the tune the same, if I heard it without reading your comments. You have a good feel for the music.
I have learned a lot on this thread. Thanks for the clip.
Cheers |
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Not much that can be said that hasn't been said many times over about, probably, the greatest composition of the 20th century. In order to (slowly) bring things back to the subject this thread (and possibly change Rok's opinion of this composer) this is THE recording of a work written for Woody Herman and his "First Herd": http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8M4VZJ8qpcU |
Lou Rawls has a resonant voice that sounds musical when he's just talking; that's why it's so recognizable. He also has the deepest respect for the classic songs; for example, "Summertime" becomes even more "Summery" when he sings it, each song he sings becomes more of what it was when he sings it. "Don't Explain", the tune made famous by "Billy Holiday", becomes even more heart wrenching. when Lou sings it, we can see him pacing the floor all night long waiting for his lady to come home. It's 6:AM, and the Sun is shining bright when she finally walks through the door with all kinds of explanations as to where she's been all night. That's when he calmly says to her "Don't Explain". As he gazes upon her radiant beauty, where she's been or who she was with is so unimportant; once again he's in the presence of her magic charms that fill him with a joy he's never known before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1SoDpej7-MEnjoy the music. |
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Stravinsky??? That's like comparing apples to apples. I asssumed the answer would be classical since you barred The Learsfool, but, STRAVINSKY??
Stravinsky is known as the Ornette Coleman of the Classical world. Or is Coleman known as the Stravinsky of Jazz. I get them confused.
I have a few of his LPs. Nothing on CD. I always enjoyed his album cover art, and at that time LPs cost $2.50, so what the hell. Can't recall listening to any of his stuff more than once.
Congrads to Acman3.
Cheers |
We have a winner. The latest recipient of the "Labotomy Award" is Acman3. Congratulations! |
Today's other Gem:
Willis Jackson -- BAR WARS
Jackson(ts), Charles Earland(o), Pat Martino(g), Idris Muhammad(d), Buddy Caldwell(congas)
WOW! Honking Tenor and Screaming B-3, with Pat Martino with them every note of the way. This is just great happy music fit for a good happin' bar. Reminds me of a group I used to listen to in Binghamton, NY.
If you are not up and dancing around on 'The Goose Is Loose', Check your pulse, you may be deceased! I thought we were about to have a 'hog calling blues' event. or at least a Gonsalves 'interval' thingy.
Pat Martino is the real deal.
I would say you gotta have it, but the only one on Amazon is from 'these sellers' and they are asking $230!!
This could be the most valuable CD I own!! :)
Cheers |
Today's Gems:
Ella Fitzgerald -- ELLA IN ROME - THE BIRTHDAY CONCERT
Recorded in Rome on Ella's 40th birthday.April 25 1958.
All standards. 18 tunes. No filler, but how can anything by Ella be considered filler.
The Italians are very enthusiastic and appreciative. Some great singing here. 'Midnight Sun', which she owns, the best 'that old black magic' since Louie Prima and Keely Smith, and a great 'Carvan'.
I have concluded that this woman does not sing, she 'plays voice'.
The last tune was 'stompin' at the savoy'. She was backed by Oscar Peterson and his group on this one. Great tune to close with.
She verbally 'introduced' Oscar's solo, while singing the song. Never missed a beat! She just made the words part of the song. Amazing.
It's Ella in her prime. Enough said. If you don't know what that means, Git outta Jazz!!!
Cheers |
O-10:
Glad you are enjoying the '100 greatest' set. I keep mine handy on the desk, because I listen to at least one disc everyday. I like the element of surprise as to what's next.
I saw Lou Rawls live in Baltimore, back in the day. I read where he had the third most recognizable voice on the planet. After Howard Cosell and Muhammad Ali. How do they determine this stuff? :)
Cheers |
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The Frogman:
**Can you name the composition that is quoted in this performance?**
I tried. I really tried. This is like a musical version of the Rorschach Inkblot Test. Everyone hears what they hear. I heard noithing that I could recognize as melody or a theme. But I do admire their audacity.
On a more positive note. They performed at Ansbach Castle. I have visited Ansbach many times. Great place to eat and shop during the Christmas season. Great old world European ambience.
The U.S. 1st Armoured Division was / is headquatered there.
BS?? Yep!
Cheers |
This is the second installment of the "Labotomy Award" contest. The title says it all; and, no, I don't think that this is an example of "bullshit".....maybe. Can you name the composition that is quoted in this performance? As usual, being the gentlemen that we all are, no cheating! Hint: Learsfool, you are automatically disqualified from participation ;-) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d0HB8ybKJzoAs usual, thanks to Rok2id for the inspiration :-) |
Shame indeed, thanks for your impressions. |
Rok, I just found time to give Lou Rawls the serious consideration he deserves; review coming tomorrow. |
Frogman - I was actually pleasantly surprised at Teagarden's technical ability. Over this three album set (48 tunes in all!) he didn't do that much that was very technically difficult, however there were several times when he suddenly, though unobtrusively and nicely within the context, did something that was actually quite difficult (the sort of thing perhaps only another brass player would even notice). So he could definitely play. Based on this limited exposure to him and certain other famous jazz trombonists I have heard, I would put his technical ability above that of say Curtis Fuller, who I have heard live. That said, quite a bit of the time he wasn't playing trombone at all, just leading the band, I guess. His singing was actually pretty good, I was reading that some people liked him better than Frank as a singer!! But I would have liked to hear him play the trombone more than he does on this set. He was certainly an impressive musician. After hearing him, I found myself wondering why I had never heard anyone even mention his name before - I think he is mostly forgotten now, which is a shame. |
Lou Rawls had a long and very successful career; he's well represented in my collection.
I just received "The 100 best jazz tunes of the 50's", and I only quit listening to go to bed. This compilation is the perfect compliment to the book "Three Wishes". Bird's photo does not appear in the book, I believe the thought of Bird and the way he died in her apartment was too painful for Nica; but all of the other musicians in this compilation, also have photos in the book.
While I already have 90% of this compilation, I still find it a great asset; my record collection is totally unorganized since I primarily rely on CD's for my listening pleasure, that makes finding an LP a really big job. At this time I'm in a jazz aficionado's heaven.
Enjoy the music.
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Learsfool, his musical style aside, how did you feel about Jack Teagarden as an instrumentalist; as a brass player? Thanks. |
Rok, my feelings about "free" jazz have not changed for quite some time. I seem to recall a couple of earlier discussions about it. But, to be clear, I don't consider ALL free jazz to be bullshit; quite the contrary. If I am not mistaken, one of those discussions was about Coltrane's "free" period. I would never consider that to be bullshit. My comments were about some players who jumped on the "free" bandwagon without having any mastery of the traditional. Occasionally, a genius comes along whose innate musical vocabulary is so different that he has something to say even without any substantive roots in the traditional vocabulary, so there is real value. Many others...; well, I think I have used up my quota of that word for a while. IMO, of course, and I am sure some more "open minded" consider that opinion to be.... |
Frogman, love your BS comment. I agree wholeheartedly that there is too much PC going on in the music world, especially in jazz, but also in classical. |
Today's Listen:
Lou Rawls with Les McCann Ltd. -- STORMY MONDAY
Rawls(v), Les McCann(p), LeRoy Vinnegar(b), Ron Jefferson(d)
Lou Rawls' first recording. Recorded in 1962 on BlueNote.
13 tunes. Mostly blues. The Count Basie, Joe Williams type of blues numbers.
This is a young Lou Rawls. You can hear it in his voice. It would get better as he aged.
The Les McCann Trio provide good backing. No weak tracks. Most are well known tunes like: 'God Bless the Child', 'See See Rider' etc... My favorite is "I'd rather drink muddy water"
Willie Dixon said "blues is the truth", if that is true, and it is, then they recorded this session with one hand on the Bible, swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Lou Rawls -- AT LAST
This is Rawls 27 years later. Still on Blue Note. Sort of like a complilation. Lou is joined by Dianne Reeves, Ray Charles, Stanley Turrentine,David 'fathead' Newman and Bobby Hutcherson.
A more sophisticated outing. Better arrangements and much larger band in support. I like the singing on this one best. He seems to be into the songs to a degree he was not in the first disc. Experience? This is the mature Lou Rawls that we all know.
11 Tracks. All good. He does a duet with Ray on, 'That's Where It's At' and with Dianne on 'At Last'. Great stuff.
For Rawls fans, both are must haves.. His first, and close to His last.
Cheers
BTW,
The avant-garde,and Free Jazz, Bullshit!?!?!! Why I never heard of such a thing!!! You can add Southwest Pakistani folk Jazz etc... to the list also.
Where were you two, when I was saying the same thing? All I got for my trouble were attacks from all sides.
You just can't keep the truth down, you just can't do it! :) Welcome to the light, and the fight. |
Frogman, "Many so-called "free" or "avant-garde" players have been shown to be nothing more than imposters since "musical political correctness" has been reluctant to call their playing what it is: bullshit."
I mistakenly bought some of that "bullshit", and sold it the next day. I wont mention who the artist was, but someone commented that he sounded like someone was stepping on his feet.
After you pointed it out, I took note of how "Idle Moments" relaxed toward the end. During that recording session, Rudy was supposed to stop Joe after 7 minutes, but every one was entranced with his solo, and Rudy decided to let him blow, consequently they had to drop another intended cut.
Enjoy the music.
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Grant Green seems to be one of the artists I'm in resonance with; that's when sympathetic vibrations occur, and the music reaches you consistently. I think we're on the same fundamental wave length. I rate musicians by how much I like their version of "Round Midnight". If they don't have one, that excludes them from the top echelon of musicians. I like Grants version of "Round Midnight". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIrYlh_oq14Enjoy the music. |
O-10, "Idle Moments" has been on my list of "to buy" for literally years ever since a friend played that cut for me. It was of particular interest because it was, as you said, one of Joe Henderson's earliest things on record. Thanks for the reminder. That recording is absolutely incredible with a beautifully relaxed feeling. As you said, all the solos are great, but Joe.....wow! There is a saying among jazz players that "you can't play outside until you know how to play inside". What they mean by that is that a player has to master improvising "inside" the tune's harmony in a traditional (easily recognized by the listener) way before he can leave that harmony for more "adventurous" note choices "outside" those traditional harmonic constraints. This has been an area of considerable controversy. Many so-called "free" or "avant-garde" players have been shown to be nothing more than imposters since "musical political correctness" has been reluctant to call their playing what it is: bullshit. Joe Henderson is a master at leaving the traditional harmony in a beautiful, organized and CONTROLLED way as a way of EXTENDING the harmony, and not simply destroying it in the spirit of being "free". Two moments in his solo that demonstrate this harmonic mastery are 8:35 and 9:45; it's a kind of harmonic spiciness.
If all that wasn't "geeky" enough: Joe Henderson plays with a very distinctive and uniquely warm sound. Part of the reason for this is his choice of mouthpiece. One will notice that tenor saxophone players play either a metal or rubber (plastic) mouthpiece. During the "swing" and early "bop" eras most players played rubber mouthpieces. As players developed more aggressive styles in the "hard-bop" eras and beyond, they sought the louder and brighter sounds that a metal mouthpiece gives the player. Joe Henderson is a notable exception to this trend. Not only did he choose to play a rubber mouthpiece, but it is a mouthpiece normally used by classical saxophonists who require an even more rounded and less edgy sound.
Another interesting thing about this recording is how the tempo relaxes even more from beginning to end. Sometimes this is intentional; it usually isn't and is just something that happens in the performance. In this case things start to relax a lot during Hutcherson's solo. Notice how much slower the tempo is by the time the melody returns at the end (13:12); it's not a subtle difference. |
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O-10:
Once again you bring to my attention music I already own. Great clip. I will listen to the entire CD tonight.
My CDs always seem to sound just a little better if blessed by O-10.
Monk is Monk! hahahhah
Cheers |
Here's one of my favorites by Grant. While all the solo's are beautiful, Joe Henderson's solo on tenor, put him on the map. This particular cut went overtime because Joe was sounding so good, that Rudy Van Gelder, the engineer, didn't want to stop him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaFDFP7m_EEnjoy the music. |
Nica asked Monk, "If you were given three wishes, what would they be?"
He was pacing back and forth, and he paused for a moment to gaze out across the river at the New York skyline. Then he gave her an answer.
And she said, "But, Thelonious! you have those already!"
He just smiled and began pacing again.
1. "To be successful musically."
2. "To have a happy family."
3. "To have a crazy friend like you."
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Listen:
Big John Patton -- GOT A GOOD THING GOIN'
Patton(organ), Grant Green(g), Hugh Walker(d), Richard Landrum(conga)
Soul-Jazz at it's best. Patton and Green made several records together. This is one of their best.
The music and playing rises to a level above just covers of pop/R&B. Two Pop covers 'ain't that peculiar' and 'shake'. There is some serious playing here from both Green and Patton.
Blue Note label, recorded in 1966. Check it out.
Cheers |
I suspect, Nellie 'didn't play that'!
Cheers |
Thanks Rok, that was quite an article. Rumors about her and Monk, were just that, "Rumors", unless Monk's wife Nellie was in on the affair; but you can never stop "animalistic" people from having such thoughts. She was a very special lady.
Enjoy the music.
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Interesting woman. Born a Rothschild. This article tells of her relationships with various Jazz players.
http://www.icrates.org/baroness-nica-the-musical-legacy-of-pannonica-de-koenigswarter/
Cheers |
Rok, I was inspired by the book "Three Wishes", to find songs written in honor of "Pannonica De Koenigswarter" . Although there are twenty songs written in her honor, and I'm sure everyone has many different versions of "Nica's Dream" written by Horace Silver, I could find only one other tune that I liked. Maybe you or Frogman can find other songs written in her honor that you like. "Pannonica" by Monk captures the essence of a beautiful fluttering butterfly, which is what the lady of jazz was named after. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHkPCW8dN4Enjoy the music. |
Today's Listen:
Various -- THE SMITHSONIAN COLLECTION OF CLASSIC JAZZ
This is the 'Revised' remastered edition, released in 1987. The original was released in 1973 on LP. The sound quality on this set is much improved.
This is a 5 CD set. Starts with Scott Joplin and Jelly Roll Morton, and ends with Ornette Coleman and The World Saxophone Quartet.
The sound quality on the early stuff is AMAZINGLY good. The later stuff is good also.
The package is typical Smithsonian. Well done with many nice touches. Great detail on all the tracks. Includes the soloists, and the order of their solos. Date and place recorded and personnel.
A 102 page booklet. Repeats the liner notes of each disc and includes great pictures. The historical information is priceless in itself.
They didn't miss many of the greats. Below is a link to the tune list.
http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Smithsonian-Collection-Of-Classic-Jazz/release/457754
The sound on the 1973 release was not good. The Scorr Joplin tune 'maple leaf rag' is a recording of a piano roll made before electric recording. Sounds just fine here.
No filler. All great tunes. Even includes two(2) versions of O-10's favorite, 'East St. Louis Toddle-Oo' by Duke Ellington! :)
All Jazz people should have this.
I am becoming a fan of these complilations. Like the '50 Greatest Jazz Tunes' I posted about earlier. Sometimes you just don't feel like an entire CD of Coltrane, or anyone else.
Cheers |
O-10:
Alice Coltrane:
I liked the "Blue Nile' the best. Probably because of the guys playing on the set. Both cuts were easy on the ears.
I have noticed that if you use the mouse to skip ahead on the music, you find that one point sounds the same as any other point. Like you are not missing anything.
No Beginning, middle, or end.
Her harp is nice. I like it.
Cheers |
Hey guys - I finally got a chance to listen to half of the box set I had picked up of Jack Teagarden. It is a really fun set - great lyrics to the songs, great dixieland style band. |
Acman3, you really tied it together. Trane was on a spiritual journey that he was beginning to express through his music. I believe Alice Coltrane, his wife, exemplified the destination Trane was trying to reach. Her music is filled with Trane's spirituality just before he died. Here we can hear it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2HwbFLh5j0 Since leaving the music we've been into, and going to Alice Coltrane is like stepping out of hot water, and then getting into cold; you have to listen to more music in that groove in order to absorb it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smisXZ7KVpoLike it or not Rok, this is where Trane was headed, he took some way out trips on live sets; that's where he played music that was totally unfamiliar to fans of the "old Trane", that music was a preview of things to come. Enjoy the music. |
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Acman3:
There was a tuba on the Mingus Big Band CD I posted. I meant to mention it, but forgot.
Guess they are more common than I thought. Now all we need is a full CD of solo Tuba! I could put it right next to my CDs of solo Harp and solo Bassoon!
Thanks for post. I have that CD by Coltrane. Now I will listen to it.
Cheers |
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Great tune, classic Trane; thanks. There's a beauty about much of Trane's playing, a certain sense of melancholy that is hard to describe. This is a personal reaction, but its a certain happy/sad quality that I find beautiful. |
