L-Pads. Speakers Awful Without Them, New Ones Ordered


I removed the L-Pads, the tweeters are way too bright, screechy above mids. Disturbing. Played my best source: R2R, Sgt. Peppers. Normally magnificent. Unlistenable!

Using my Chase Remote Control to cut Treble temporarily, until new L-Pads arrive.

I ordered these 16 ohm pads:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153892668925

mine don’t have the issues he discusses, my insulation is modern, crossovers are tar filled metal cans, not much heat in 6.3 cu ft; these and originals were large ceramic body.

Will put the tweeter ’Brilliance’ ones in first, listen. Then add ’Presence’, listen, decide: leave in, or out. IN more than likely. They (orig and 1 set of replacements) have been IN for 62 years.

My original bronze ones came from original Fisher console, they were a custom version, still labeled ’Brilliance’ and ’Presence’.
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Many of these old Electro-Voice designs had L-Pads (16 ohm used AT37 Attenuators; 8 ohm used AT38). 2 way have one. 3 way designs have two: ’Brilliance’ and ’Presence’.

You can balance the drivers to each other, and to each space, and as you age, ability to hear highs diminishes, you can creep the tweeters up speck by speck. Imbalance due to irregular spacing: adjust each individually

I’m not going to measure and install a fixed resistor, I want future adjustability.

’L-Pads: Terrible Idea’. Bullshite, everyone who ever heard them loves them!

And, let’s not forget, the originals, with L-Pads, first one mono speaker, later two for stereo, are the designs that made these companies successful.






elliottbnewcombjr

Dave,

thanks for the clarification, I yap about an issue but have often been ignorant/wrong when it get’s technical. I wouldn’t recognize an ohm if it crawled out of my boot.

I always referred to these as Rheostats, Then some say Potentiometers, L-Pads, learning about changing/not changing what is shown to the crossover is specifically helpful here, thanks.

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BALANCE CONTROLS TO THE RESCUE

E-V SIX is very illustrative of this discussion and my decision to put mine back.

It is a 4 way system with a 5 ‘STEP-TYPE’ Balance Control (5 selectable/specific resistor settings) 18" Woofer, how about that!

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/E-V%20Six%20EDS.pdf

Back to E-V SIX

Page 2: ADJUSTMENT OF BALANCE CONTROL “precise adjustment of the system to room acoustics AND personal tastes”.

Bottom of Page 2 is the wiring diagram, showing that the Balance Control alters both the Treble (upper mids) and Tweeter together, Bass and Upper Bass unchanged.

Position #3 ‘Standard’ rooms; #2 and #1 are ‘CUTS’ for ‘hard/live’ rooms; # 4 and 5 are ‘BOOSTS’ for soft/dead rooms.

Page 1, Figure 1, shows 5 frequency lines, each selector position and it’s resulting frequency graph.

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IMO, PERSONAL TASTE should also be understood as ‘a specific listener’s hearing ability: ‘live or soft’.

FMC: The Fletcher-Munson Curve shows that our hearing ability, effecting personal tastes, changes as we age.

CHANGE: the rooms furnishings may/probably will change, or the speakers may be moved to another room, more dead or alive.

AVERAGE is FAR FROM EVERYBODY; can be SOME, NOT MOST. FMC, like shoe size or desk/chair height, or hearing ability, is an average. I just had a hearing test. My lows are ‘un-characteristically’ still flat, mid to low highs ‘normally’ flat, upper highs decline progressively, ‘normally’. Thus I’m ‘near average’ What about you, or him or her?

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EARLY E-V systems: 2 way have 1 Balance Control; 3 way like mine, have two Balance Controls: ‘BRILLIANCE’ (only effects the Tweeter) and ‘PRESENCE’ (only effects the midrange). Quite often highly efficient horn systems.

E-V literature of AT37’s and AT38’s describe them as true L-Pads, maintaining 16 or 8 ohms shown to the crossover.

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/AT37%20and%20AT38%20EDS.pdf

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IMO they are an asset, not a detriment. I ordered simple coil type which affects the crossover. Thanks to input from Dave and others I will return them and order true L-Pads with constant 16 ohm shown to the crossover.

https://critesspeakers.com/electro-voice-crossovers.html

I spoke to Bob’s son yesterday, they are still in business.

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Using Balance Controls was easy in the MONO era, but for a STEREO PAIR, matching L to R is far from easy. I have often said, I value/need my McIntosh MODE Control to achieve matching frequency performance L to R; Volume Balance; Room Balance. Then remotely adjust volume and occasionally refine a specific track’s balance via my Remote Line Control. Now using RLC-1’s Treble control while waiting for my new L-Pads to arrive.

And, MONO or STEREO, they need maintenance perhaps replacement over time.

Aside from costs, I think it became hard for manufacturers to trust their use and maintenance to the general public. Hard to trust that in an given user’s space, unknown acoustics, unknown adjustments, that they would sound ’proper’ to any/everyone who might decide to buy/not buy them.

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Oh yeah, the listening position diagram, 30-40 degree angle, is quite interesting. Mine is similar, but with toe-in, which I adjust for wider center for pretty decent imaging 2 listeners.

Elliott


’L-Pads: Terrible Idea’. Bullshite, everyone who ever heard them loves them!

While I am a big fan of appropriate use of tone controls and EQ in general speaker L-pads are not one of my favorite things. The main issue with them is reliability. Wipers and high power don’t work very well and can degrade rather quickly IMHO. A line level tone control, with voltages ~ 1 V or less, and milliamps of current is much more reliable.

Suit yourself, but these devices are just not that reliable and often degrade over time.

Best,

Erik


lewm,

Yes, it occurred to me I could make a 5 ’step-type’ resistor type as you would surely prefer. Would have to, but could find the ’exact’ resistors for my specific driver’s (not the SIX). Figure out the mechanics for changing individual selection. It would not be inexpensive.

Or, stick with a simple progressive level of adjustment via proper high quality L-Pads.

After 46 years designing Corporate Offices, each plan, decision, budget, schedule, light fixture (I designed my own frequently), hvac system decision (I hired my own engineers), each item selection the ’best’ choice I can find/make for clients:

when I retired I decided to leave the constant search for perfection behind.

These things worked well then and now, you know I like vintage, not to mention I have two 1-3/4" diameter holes in each speaker’s rosewood back panel. High in the rear corners where I can reach them without moving the speaker out of position.

I will transfer what I buy from Crites into my original face plates. Fisher’s Recessed Cup and push on knob, both Bronze. They fit these 4 holes and recess into the 3/4" back panel. I will position them, not like EV AT37’s were, 0 to 9, but as Fisher did: up is center attenuation, then up or down from there. These drivers/this 3 way system was originally designed to perform ’normally’ in the center of the attenuation range. That’s why they are so screechy without attenuation.
Of course if I really wanted to be a scoundrel I'd troll with something like :

Using a transformer with multiple taps is the only proper way to implement variable driver levels.


But I'm not a scoundrel.  :-)

Erik
In the course of this discussion, I came to appreciate that you are most interested in preserving the original or vintage sound of your speakers. Which is surely a worthy goal. That is why I suggested you can keep the frequency divider network as it is, and yet improve it by upgrading the parts inside. When you put an aftermarket L pad in there, there is a risk you will come up with a sound that is quite different. I look forward to your reporting the results of installing a new L Pad. By the way, I don’t see why you say my idea is expensive. You need to buy five high-quality resistors per speaker  and if you want to get really crazy, you could also replace the associated capacitors but there is no need to spend huge dollars on those parts and the rest is DIY. There is a bUsiness, Madisound, that specializes in speaker parts. Anyway, carry on.