You will not gain anything by putting the Lightspeed into your system and I would'nt sell you one until this is sorted out.
As your Krell FPB700CX has balanced inputs and is 100kohm with 3.58v sensitivity, that is, it takes 3.58v in, to take it to full output just before clipping.
Your Ayon CD2s has balanced output of 300ohm with up to 5v out at full level.
So you can see your Ayon at full volume output has enough output to take your Krell beyond it's full output which will damage it, you have either done this and is the cause of your Krell's damage, or something else is misconscrewed.
Cheers George |
@ Georgelofi, Hi, believe it or not, I have used the Ayon 2s volume control at the level you are speaking of plenty of times!, It just dont have the gain for me to get the power out of my amp that I would like to have, I would say, half the power of the amp is available, no matter the max volume I set!, I have the Krell fpb 700 cx amp, I have 6 oms speakers that ride mostly at 4 1/2 oms while playing music, still, I know what high power sounds like, since I was a life long musician!, and the speakers are 91 db sensativity!, I do not like most pre-amps out there because they add a veil over the music at hand, and they always add their sound signature to the sound as well!, then theres the cost of mutiple cables, which btw, my i/c retails for $14,950.00 a meter!, one of these is what I like to stick with considering the cost here!, I still want to buy your unit, I can always use it somewhere on the other systems I am building over the next few years, by having your unit already is a plus with doing this!,, cheers! |
If your Ayon has a digital domain volume control and you are able to use it within it's top 1/3 of it's full output range, so you are not "bit stripping", then only this will be even better than having a Lightspeed.
Cheers George |
@ clio09, I agree, the adapters, and try the lightspeed!, You have been great here!, A true asset to us all!, Thankyou so much for your time, It will be some time before I buy the unit, As the post above tells why, regarless, I will be buying the Lightspeed!,, cheers! |
@ Georgelofi, I am sorry, I did not mean for you to work for it!, I have been thru so much heart ache over audio the last 13 months!, regardless of cost of eany unit, I am tired!, It seems like nothing is what its said to be!, I hope you understand my point of veiw here,Thankyou for all the post from you, I will most likly buy from you,I have to waite till my amp comes back from Krell, I have to pay them first, then I will get in touch with you, Do not worry, you got the sale, Its just I have to give Krell 2 or 3 thousand dollars for what they are doing to my amp!BTW, My Ayon 2s is running directly to my amp!, It has a high quality digital volume control!, Like I said, A r-core transformer for each channel after the signal leaves the out-put tubes, and the third R-core transformer is for the digital domain, Thankyou, cheers! |
Get the Lightspeed, get the adapters, and be done with it. Given what you probably paid for those cables the investment here is minimal and the reward factor is very high. I bought a pair of adapters from a pro music store for another set up I have and use them with my second LSA unit. Works just fine. In my system the sound stage varies by recording. Most of the time it is set back, but that also has to do with how I set up my speakers as well. I have never heard a Lightspeed make a system forward sounding. Only way for you to know for sure what it will do in your system is to try it. |
Wow!! Your guna make me work for it, I'll try my best, in point form.
1: For 1mt anything below 100pf per foot is fine
2: Yes a number of my customers use quality xlr to rca adapters
3: Not much lost with quality adapters from what they say, the gains out weigh the the minuses big time
4: The signal only passes through one special passive fixed resistor that can change it's resistance (re: volume) according to the amount of light shone on it. but the light is control by solid state components.
5: The Lightspeed Attenuator is true to the source, it adds nothing and detracts nothing, it is the most transparent/dynamic way of controlling the volume of the source to the power amp/s. The only way that can be more so is to plug the source directly into your amp, but then you have the problem of no volume control.
6: There is no gain it is unity gain.
Cheers George |
Oh!,I almost forgot!,I am sorry,What is the Gain specification ratting on the Lightspeed mk2?,thankyou, cheers! |
@ Georgelofi, Hi, This is a nice supprise!, You are the owner and Designer of the lightspeed Attenuator?, Clio09 was talking about interconnects low capacitance,, I have the Taralabs zero Gold Interconnect,To my knowledge, This cable has one of the lowest capacitance rattings in the industry!, please look at the specification sheet thats available on the Taralabs internet site, then, If you would, please give me your opinion,this interconnect cost so much money, the only option I can think of to be able to use the Lightspeed mk2 is to buy gold plated xlr to rca adapters!,reterminating this i/c is not feasable!, It would cost more to do that than the entire lightspeed mk2 cost???, my interconnect is one meter long too!, by useing xlr to rca adapters,I suppose I would loose a little performance of the cable, maybe 10%???., Is this unit you have here solid state?,and where does the soundstage set?,a few feet in front of the speakers, in between the speakers, or front and center a roll on the soundstage,what roll of seating would you describe the soundstage to be at, a,d,g???,Is the unit warm sounding,analitical on the treble,big sounding soundstage, small soundstage???,you get the picture, I would like you to be honest and describe the sound attributes of the lightspeed mk2.,I have been thru 3 digital players in 14 months, only one player sounded fantastic!, but the unit was bleading d/c from the tubes into my Krell 700cx amp, and that caused it to shutdown to standby, I had to get a refund on that new player, and the second one sounded like crap period!, I sold that one, then the third one that I do still have sounds fairly good, but the soundstage is to forward for my liking running direct to amp!,I may can resonance tune the forward sound out of it??,I have not obtained the cones of my choice yet that will actually work for tunning.,The digital unit I have uses 6h30 tubes that I really do not like!,The 12ax7 tubes have a better sound stage to me, that was in my first digital player that bleed d/c, I hated to part with the unit,I had too!,, Thankyou!,All of you chime in if you would,Thankyou to all you gentleman here, you guys are very considerate here!, cheers! |
What I meant is that I would not sacrifice sound quality by going back to the MkI Lightspeed configuration and having to charge more for it because it's balanced. I don't think anyone would expect that, let alone purchase it.
Single ended sounds better if the interconects are kept at a reasonable lenght because of less electronics in the output of the source and input of the amps. If say 10mts or more interconnect is needed then balanced can start to sound better, but the Lightspeed is passive and it cannot drive over 10mts anyway. So we're back to square one again.
Cheers George |
Not really damned. If you try to satisfy every condition, you will be in an endless loop of frustration. You have to take what works and just keep improving upon it, if possible.
Many times marketing dictates product but it sounds like you do not have those pressures. The Georgelofi R and D dept is untethered and answers to nobody but you! |
I have tried very very hard to make a Lightspeed MkII balanced and reliable to stay in calibration even with electronic genius's trying to help out, but without some extra electronics (like sampling impedance values sort of feedback) it does have a negative effect on the sound quality, so it is not possible, and it would of put the price through the roof.
My old MkI Lightspeed design is possible to make balanced though, but it does not sound as good as the MkII. So your damed if you do and damed if you don't.
Cheers George |
The LSA is not available in balanced configuration. George has stated several times that in his testing a balanced design was not reliable. As Photonman advised just get an RCA to XLR cable, but keep it short, 1.5m at the most and ensure the cable has low capacitance.
FWIW I have a Warpspeed optocoupler passive preamp that uses LDR technology. It is balanced but is a more complex design than the LSA. In comparison I found both to provide satisfying results, but overall felt the LSA was smoother and cleaner. |
If no balanced LSA is possible, you can easily get a cable made with XLR/RCA terminations but you will not be balanced anymore but so what :) |
@ clio09, I have not told you, my amp only has balanced and Krell cast inputs,no rca single ended inputs!, can George make a lightspeed with balanced connections?,The praise here on this product is worth while to buy and try!, To use it I have to have balanced connections, I see this thread started in 2010, and George might now 2013 have available balanced???,,Whats your advise?,, cheers! |
@ clio09, Thankyou, you are a gentleman!,You also proved to be a great asset here for me, I will take a look at the threads you posted here,again, Thankyou so much! |
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Thankyou gentleman!, The main reason I am interested in the Lightspeed is running the Ayon direct versus having a pre-amp sounds to forward for my tast!, most people do not have this problem with the ayon 2s with a pre-amp!, To me, running the Ayon 2s exploits the true nature of this player, And I have to say, I hate a forward sound!, I was thinking that the Lightspeed would act like some sort of buffer to rid the forward sound, now, thats if the Lightspeed itself is not forward sounding!, where do I buy the Lightspeed?, How does it compete to the tvc?, witch do you guys think has the better sound?,, Thankyou, cheers! |
You should be just fine. Especially if you can drive the Krell direct from the Ayon. |
Should be no problems, try it on low first you should have enough seeing you have at the moment with it direct. Then if you need to push it harder try the 5v.
As for the impedance of 100kohm on the Krell this is great, as with the Lightspeed which mimics a 10k pot you'll have a combind Krell plus Lightspeed load impedance 9k which the 300ohm source output will see which should also be fine.
Cheers George |
@ clio09, Hi, I am currently useing a Ayon cd-2s digital player, It is 300 oms out-put, and the out-put voltage is switchable 2.5 low to 5 volts on high,, I keep it on 2.5 volts to run directly to the krell 700cx, the krell is 3.3 volts in-put.,, The Ayon has 3 R-core transformers inside of it, one for each channel after the signal leaves the out-put tubes, and the other R-core transformer is for the digital.,, thankyou. |
What is the output voltage and output impedance of your source? That will give us a better indication. FWIW I use my LSA with an Atma_Sphere S-30 which is about 3V sensitive and 100k ohm input impedance. My source is Just over 2V output and 100 ohm output impedance. Works just fine. |
Hi, My question is for eany one who may be of help, can this lightspeed atenuator work with a krell class A 700cx amp that is 3.3 volts input sensativity, and 100kohms????, thanks guys! |
How could Photonman not own a Lightspeed???? Seriously, it's a great product. If you don't need source switching, it probably IS the biggest bargain in high end. |
This forum is dangerous.
I just ordered one as I always wondered about removing the preamp but never acted on the thought until this forum and at this sane and reasonable price, it is a good calculated risk to take. Really curious about this one. |
Thanks for the update and congratulations. |
Lightspeed Attenuators owners and diyer's, I've just been informed again by Stereophile, and you'll be happy to know that your Lightspeed has just made it again into the Recommended Components with the highest 3 x $$$ rating for sound and value for money in the next issue.
You can download it free via Apple Ipod from the Stereophile website or wait for the hard copy to come out.
Cheers George |
No loss of dynamics from what I could tell. I think you will once again discover why the LSA is so good. The ICs I used back then were Mogami but now I use WyWires. They have incredibly low capacitance.
Dealer disclaimer for WyWires. |
We did experiments with different input impedance to a specially modded poweramp that we could change on the fly while listening. This was with about 30 "golden ears" at our club through a very revealing system, we went from 300kohm input impedance down in steps while the music was playing all the way to 33kohms before just one thought he noticed a slight compression, and he was not sure.
As for cable capacitance anything below 100pf per foot is fine, as with 100pf per foot that would be approx 300pf for 1mt this would equate to a -3db HF roll off at 76khz.
Cheers George |
Thank you both for responding.
Clio09: I know you said the sound was fine, but did you have ANY issues with limited dynamics, or felt at any time that you were "borderline" regarding dynamics? As I said, my listening volume is on average fairly low, but I still want the low level detail and weight that I get at lower volumes.
George: Since I'm kinda close on specs for the LSA not losing any of its magic, I want to squeeze as much out of it as possible. I want to find the lowest capacitance interconnects I can. May I ask what you recommend?
Again, thank you both. No offense to anyone else on this wonderfully informative thread, but you were specifically the two gentlemen I wanted to here from! |
Ditto with what Clio09 said Devilboy, you have a great system match for the lightspeed with those parameters.
I also have clients that have poweramps with 20kohms input and say "they couldn't imagine it getting any better than this".
Cheers George |
You will be fine with those specs. I have used the LSA with an amp with a slightly lower input impedance and the sound was just fine. |
George: Forgive me but what I'm about to ask has been mentioned 100 times in this thread but I guess I just want some reassurance. I'm about to purchase a solid state amp with a 51,000 ohm input impedance and a .75V input sensitivity. My dac outputs 82 ohms and 2V. I'm also thinking about buying a TVC preamp while used, is still considerably more than your preamp. I listen to classical and jazz at moderate volume levels at most. Is the 51k of my next amp adequate, or borderline for my listening habits?
By the way, I'm a former LSA owner who was THRILLED during entire time of ownership. However, that was with an amplifier with almost a 400,000 ohm input impedance! |
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TelWire is solid core copper, the Mogami stranded copper. I made a set of speaker cables using 1 x copper solid core combined with 1 times silver solid core per run. |
For some reason the last paragraph got edited this is how it should read.
For speaker cable, for my bass ACI SV12 IB 4cuft 25hz to 150hz I use 4 x 1mm solid core silver per phase.
Then for the ML ESL's 150hz to 20khz I use again 4 x 1mm solid core per phase 99.99% copper.
Cheers George |
TelWire (pure copper?) Mogami (pure copper?) This is what I use as well (99.99% copper) but different manufactures, no multi fine strands, but a couple (4-6) of good size solids cores per phase, this combo give me power heft and tightness as well as transparency through the mids and highs. And of course low capacitance.
I've tried silver at either or both positions, while initially impressive they quickly sounded too highlighted in the upper ranges, not harsh but highlighted, it was quickly obvious that it was disjointed from bass/mid bass to the mids and highs, in other words it didn't flow.
For speaker cable, for my bass (ACI SV12 IB 4cuft 150hz to 20khz) I use again 4 x solid core per phase 99.99% copper.
Cheers George |
TelWire from source to LSA and Mogami from LSA to amp. |
Hi B_limo (Bruce) , thanks for the very concise and accurate review of your new Lightspeed.
As for interconnects with it, it is always good to use good quality low capacitance ones from the output to the poweramp, as is the same for tube preamps, <100pf (picofarad capacitance) per foot is fine.(which most hi-end cables are).
Manufactures should be able to answer this, or have it printed in the specs on the packaging.
The input interconnects from the source can be whatever good ones you have handy and like the sound of.
As for the brand/construction this is more system dependent, I for my system prefer copper, some may like silver, which to me is always a tad brighter.
Cheers George |
I'm curious about that too. I'm using two matched pairs of blue jeans interconnects that sounded like poo between my dac and classe pre amp, and between my classe pre amp and classe amp. For dome reason, they sound fantastic with the lightspeed. I can't wait if it will sound better using some analysis plus or signal cables :-) |
I use two short pairs(1.5 Mtr) of Heimdal from my source to the Lightspeed and from it to the power amps.
I was running a longer pair of Art Audio IC from the source.
I think I like 2 matched pairs.
I'm curious about future IC upgrades.
So what's the latest rave interconnect for the Lightspeed?
Two pairs of the same or mix and match?
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Yep, another "normal" comment from a first time Lightspeed Owner !
Mine's coming up to it's 7th year of use now. Still haven't found aything to beat it for a single input Attenuator, when correctly implemented.
Cheers
Scott |
I just recieved my lightspeed this morning. First off, George does great business. He e-mailed me back three or four times a day in the beginning in order to answer any and all of my questions. Second, he over delivers on his promises. I was expecting it would take 5 to 7 weeks for me to recieve my lightspeed and it took about three weeks.
Now, for the sound. Talk about transparent and detailed! My system had some grunge, a little bit of mid range mud I guess you could say. Well it's all gone; all of it. My sound is so clear and transparent that if I had to stop here with the upgrades, I'd finally be satisfied. Everything from here (power cords, isolation footers for my components, more room treatments, analysis plus interconnects), it's all icing on the cake. I have finally got the sound I was after.
This "pre amp" is worth it's weight in gold. Don't buy one, buy two and give one to a friend. I'm serious, they're that good.
Thanks again, George!
:-) |
I got George Lightspeed attenuator directly from him and is using with my Bryston 3bsst . earlier I was using Luminous Audio Axiom walker modded Passive Pre. In short , there is lot of improvements in terms of transparency of sound . Overall sound is also more smooth on ear .
Highly satisfied owner .
Thanks George for such a wonderful product at a budget price. |
Thanks George for confirming that what I was hearing wasn't my imagination.
I've been on a "power first" approach to this hobby for the last few years,so it doesn't surprise me that the quality of the wall wart could affect the sound.
I hope to explore some alternatives,some of which
are twice the cost of the Lightspeed, but I'm no stranger to using ancilliaries that cost more than the components they are plugged into.
I feel your product is more than deserving of the best power they can get.
Perhaps something from you in the future?
From a weight perspective, the heavier one, the one with the ability to switch plugs of different sizes and switch values is the heavier,but it has the zingy sound.
But I'll try it again and see if I change my opinion now that the LPS has aged somemore.
What I really find interesting is how we ,audiophiles,seem to have a preference for colourations.
We all seem to want to find the special poridge that is just right,but that means something different to everyone.
Tube vs solid state,it's all colourations, trade-offs and preferences.Over the years we tend to find gear that is a comfortable fit,like a nice pair of well fitting shoes that we've grown accustomed to.
New shoes seldom feel the same as the old ones did,until they too are near their expiry date or fall out of fashion.
Audio gear is much the same.
What's new is either embraced or scorned,it's a revelation or it's snake oil.
It's just a re-badged version of something that came before it, or it's just not as good as they used to make back in the good old days.
But sometimes something does come along that seems to be out of step with what's been going on in audio over the last few years.
A product that sounds way better than it's price would lead you to believe.
A product that really doesn't fit into either the tube or solid state camp, and one that doesn't have as many sonic colourations as some of the best of each.
This I find is the most impressive characteristic of the LPS.
It just gets out of the way and lets you hear more of the cd and less of what the pre-amp is adding to the sound of the cd.
It's like a pre amp - not.
I'm not a newbie,here's a few of the pre amps I've owned,in different systems however.
Dynaco,RGR,Mark Levinson, CJ Premier 2,Audio Valve Eklipse,
Sonic Frontiers, Blue Circle Galatea,and I know I'm leaving some out,but perhaps there's a reason why I've forgotten those.
Everyone of those preamps were good, at least to my ears, and so is my present pre, the Manley Steelhead,which replaced a Sutherland PHD, which was no slouch either, but only a phono stage.
But they all had a "sound" which they imparted on the music.
I never really knew how much of a sound most highly regarded preamps have until I heard the LSP.
I'll have to rehash the old war horse terminology of "hearing things for the forst time in my cds", but that's an apt description of what the Lightspeed Attenuator does for me.
If you have assembled a decent system and you want to hear what those components really sound like, as oppossed to how they sound with added colourations, then I think you would be as pleased as I am with the Lightspeed. |
Hi Chuck,(Lacee) it is good to hear it got there safe and sound, and your initial listening session is positive. Please give us a more in depth review after a couple of more days, I think you will find even more will be discovered.
As for your findings of the sound difference of the two separate wall warts, I have an idea which may be the answer. One of them could be a Switchmode (SMP) and the other a Linear. Depending on quality of the Switchmode they can sound "zippy". As they can inject HF rubbish into the circuit by air or through the wiring.
They are hard to tell apart visually but usually for similar power (mA) eg: between 300mA to say 500mA ratings, a Switchmode wall wart will be much lighter than the a Linear wall wart.
Let us know how you go.
Cheers George |
My LSA has arrived it now does volume control for my Esoteric X-03 into a pair of tube Acoustat servo amps on my Acoustat X speakers.
Previously I was using the line inputs of my Manley Steelhead into the Acoustats.
The walwart is plugged into a Hydra 8,which is connected by a Shunyata Annaconda power cord into a FIM recptacle on a dedicated 20 amp line.The Acoustats are on another 20 amp line using more Annacondas into a Furutech GDX-gold receptacle.
The esoteric has an Annaconda digtal power cord going direct into the FIM 's other receptacle.
The LSA sits on 3 roller blocks atop the hydra and is plugged into one of the Hydra's digital recptacles.
Sorry about the long winded preamble, but if Iam doing something amiss in my set up, please advise me so that I can correct the error of my ways.
Now to my intial impressions.
After only a couple hours of listening,it's easy to hear the increased amount of detail.
The issue of volume seems to vary from cd to cd , something I hadn't noticed when I listened to cd prior to the LSPA.
I tend to listen at more modest levels,so the volume control is the lower side of 9, but this is not a problem, I'll take added detail retrieval as the trade-off.
There seems to be some extra lower bass punch on some cd's that I didn't notice before, and on some other cd's I felt there wasn't as much.
That's strange.
My intial take is that the Lightspeeed doesn't homogenize the sound as much as it was before, but not to discredit the Steelhead in any way.It's just that the differences between cds are more noticeable than before, or maybe it's my imagination?
Also, I had two wal warts to experiment, one had variable plugs and voltage settings, the other was fixed.
The fixed walwart was the more robust, the other a bit more edgy, zippy, depending on the cd this could be a mixed blessing.I stuck with the fixed version.
This leads me to speculate on how sensitive the Lightspeed is to what it's power by.
I run it into the digital receptacle of the Hydra 8, but will try one of the analog receptacles.
I too wonder about what battery power would sound like after my initial runs with the two different wall warts.
I've just read George's reccommendation,a bit late as I just sent him my take on the unit before coming to this thread.
Am I happy with the Lightspeed?
Definitely yes,for the money it is great,and the single input isn't a drawback,there's better isolation between sources this way(one reason why I wanted the cd player out of the Steelhead)maybe just a minor inconvenience,as is the lack of remote volume is for others.
Personally I'll take it as it's served up,all the better for the sonics.
I look forward as the hours pass, to judge whether the sound improves , but so far I am very pleased. |
I prefer the battery but like George cannot put my finger on exactly why. |
I do not prefer the battery. I cannot say exactly why but with the battery it sounds a bit lifeless and more clean. Without the battery it sounds more vivid. Probably I like the result of a "dirty" power.
Regards
batalok |
I prefer a battery, but I cannot say why, if I did a blind test I could not say which was which.
Sam Tellig of Stereophile says the same, he prefers the battery when he know which is on, but cannot say why either.
Go to ebay and type in "12v Lithium Ion rechargable" make sure with the seller that the lead that comes with it is a 2.1mm plug and center is positive. If center is negative you will cause damage to the Lightspeed.
These 6800mAh Lithium batteries are good for 2 weeks before needing a recharge, they are already overkill so no need to get bigger.
Cheers George |
