Limited soundstage between speakers


No matter what the source, the soundstage in my system remains within the width of the speakers. I read with envy of systems which extend the soundstage outside the speaker boundaries. Is this a problem with my speakers, amplification, room boundaries or something else?

What change should I make to improve the soundstage?

gyrodec/shelter 501/exposure 3010s2d/ spendorA6

 

rrm

I don’t feel it’s appropriate to think of room reflections as distortion. Ideally they add something nice to the listening experience. Our brain is very adept at discerning the original signal from a reflection most of the time, so distortion in equipment will generally have a more damaging effect to our listening pleasure than a room reflection, although in some cases reflections can sound very bad and ruin the sound quality. Stereo imaging is already messed up in a simple 2 channel configuration due to immediate crosstalk from the speakers reaching both ears. This is probably why most people don't enjoy 2 channel audio in an anechoic space, while more channels with a good mix can sound very good.  With just 2 channels it can be argued that we really need some appropriate reflections to smooth out the otherwise intense crosstalk comb filtering created when 2 channels are playing the same thing to create a center image. I can relate to rrm’s frustration and have had to strike a balance between imaging precision and a more enveloping and spacious experience. My speakers are fairly narrow in their dispersion above 600Hz and that makes for very little of the beyond the speaker experience, except with that Roger Waters stuff, and at least one Madonna album I heard. There’s more than just getting that effect though. Listening to a wider dispersion speaker with great off axis smoothness that my co-worker brought in to the office, I was beguiled by the life and vividness it added to have more early reflections informing my ears. Sounds seem to hang in the air around the speakers like halos. Honestly I don’t get the effect of live acoustic instruments ever doing that but I like it! It comes at the expense of a very shimmery high end that could get fatiguing, like looking at sparklers for too long. They’re pretty but they’ll burn a hole in your retina. Still, I’m tempted to re-do my mid and high horns for a bit wider dispersion to add a little zest.

Very great informative and on the spot post... Thanks....

I think the same and my experience corroborate your impression about acoustic even if our system/room are different... ...

 

I don’t feel it’s appropriate to think of room reflections as distortion. Ideally they add something nice to the listening experience. Our brain is very adept at discerning the original signal from a reflection most of the time, so distortion in equipment will generally have a more damaging effect to our listening pleasure than a room reflection, although in some cases reflections can sound very bad and ruin the sound quality. Stereo imaging is already messed up in a simple 2 channel configuration due to immediate crosstalk from the speakers reaching both ears. This is probably why most people don't enjoy 2 channel audio in an anechoic space, while more channels with a good mix can sound very good.  With just 2 channels it can be argued that we really need some appropriate reflections to smooth out the otherwise intense crosstalk comb filtering created when 2 channels are playing the same thing to create a center image. I can relate to rrm’s frustration and have had to strike a balance between imaging precision and a more enveloping and spacious experience. My speakers are fairly narrow in their dispersion above 600Hz and that makes for very little of the beyond the speaker experience, except with that Roger Waters stuff, and at least one Madonna album I heard. There’s more than just getting that effect though. Listening to a wider dispersion speaker with great off axis smoothness that my co-worker brought in to the office, I was beguiled by the life and vividness it added to have more early reflections informing my ears. Sounds seem to hang in the air around the speakers like halos. Honestly I don’t get the effect of live acoustic instruments ever doing that but I like it! It comes at the expense of a very shimmery high end that could get fatiguing, like looking at sparklers for too long. They’re pretty but they’ll burn a hole in your retina. Still, I’m tempted to re-do my mid and high horns for a bit wider dispersion to add a little zest.

 

Treat your room.

Yes but treating a room with passive absorbing or rflective surfaces or difusive one,  is not the same thing  as  controlling the room mechanically...

Thats the point of my posts...

passive treatment is necessary and also some mechanical control with Helmholtz resonators and diffusers...

 

 

I had serious issues with my soundstage and imaging.

But it appears to be caused by hash or noise in my high treble.

These issues were solved by the addition of what are known as Zobel networks plugged into the binding posts of my speakers. In my case, those are the treble ones of the two pair. There is a fellow on AG who has built these: Deulund-Mundorf Speaker Purifiers. I think these can be built using those caps and resistors with a heat sink. Although the component values are custom made for the Ohm rating of your speakers. They do not interfere with the built in speaker crossovers since they only effect HF 12K Hz and above. 
I had thought that my speaker placement or room were to blame. Not the case!

Now after about 150 hours of break in for the caps, imaging is pinpoint and the soundstage is wide and deep. I guess it’s like getting a pair of highly upgraded tweeters. It is clear that the former HFs were “dirty”.  To “purify” is the key.