linn sondek tt

All that matters is that one is happy whatever they purchase.  as for the assanine statement, when you have been listening as long as I have, you start to hear things and you remember what ya hear, trust me.  

Linn does not have the support in the states they should have and thats a problem, however, I might not mind tinkering with a used one someday.

Coming back into this thread, I am horrified to read that people can promote an argument that the Linn is defective because you can upgrade it over many years. Surely a hi fi item that allows itself to be upgraded as time passes by, is quite an exceptional plus, and very rare indeed. Not sure how you upgrade a Technics 1200G.
Ah yes, I do know ... sell it and go back to your Linn!

I do find it odd that people go to the trouble of getting so invested in debating the value/quality of products they don't own...

I find that frankly asinine.   Post about what you own.   Posts about what you heard once or heard somewhere else are worthless.  

it's pretty obvious some agendas are at play here.  I'll simply say Linn would not have been able to sell these for 40 years if they weren't good.  There is so much choice that the market will kill overpriced underperforming products.  That hasn't happened with the LP12.

As for $800 number, that's equally asinine.  Even on a standard Majik, the 9cc arm alone retailed for close to that, and the cartridge the Adikt is based on is a well-reviewed Goldring which itself retails for over $500.  Linn of course is starting to roll out a new Majik arm, but I've not seen that reviewed yet.

I do own an LP12, I'm happy with it.  That's all that matters to me.

so Linn equipment is that bad?

@tzh21y Listening to Magico speakers and comparing them to Linn speakers would lead to your conclusions. Unfortunately, you came to the incorrect conclusion about the table,but not about the rest of the Linn gear.

I guess I was just disappointed  from what I heard when I heard the Linn.  It was a pretty expensive setup at around 18K for a turntable.  The rest of the Linn setup was well over 100K.  My VPI scout was an eyeopener when it came to the Linn.  At my local dealer they had a VPI Aries and McIntosh monoblocks powering Magico speakers and I felt it was just much better than the Linn setup.  Like Davey said, it could have been the all Linn setup contributing to the overall conclusion.  Its possible.  The Technics and other direct drives have a much different presentation than either.  IMHO, more honest and accurate.  Some may not want that honesty and some may like the lush sound of the Linn. Each to their own I guess.  I personally would like to have a little of both.  Maybe someday.

daveyf you should be replying to cleeds not me. And cleeds, I don’t pay retail and get lots of stuff free especially cables. I paid 100.00 for the Linn Sondek many years ago.

I think cartridges as also way overpriced... there are so many cartridges costing well over $10K from Koetsu, Lyra, AirTight.... The cartridge is so small ... How much is the material cost ? 

 @rwwear  Why, because he should be accepting of the fact that most a’philes are ok with being fleeced...and that is part of the hobby! I’m not saying the Linn is way overpriced, but the majority of gear in the hobby seems to fall into that category, and like I stated above, Cable’s in particular. Although, I am listening to one exception to that rule right now. Unfortunately, it is the very rare exception in the cable industry.

rwwear

... the Linn is way overpriced ... all audiophile products are overpriced ...

If you really believe that, you're probably in the wrong hobby.

@rmwear   Agreed the upgrades are overpriced. However, like you pointed out, all audiophile products are overpriced...and turntable manufacturer's are one of the worst offenders!( palling in comparison to cable manufacturer's ( rip-off artists IOW)  I'm not going to try and justify the pricing, as I too think it is somewhat unreasonable, but at least the table can be updated, how many others can you say that about?

I'm sure many will disagree but the Linn is way overpriced. The parts are decent but it shouldn't cost but 700.00 to 800.00 dollars. I know they don't make that many anymore and it's a boutique item and should be taken into account. And all audiophile products are overpriced. But they've made their original engineering costs back in spades.
Face it Ivor had to get the original reviewer drunk to get him to like it.

The limited edition just out now - only 100 being made or something like that. Thought I'd jump at it purely on dealer advice and favourable comments from other people that I consider to be believable consistently.

@tatyana69  The Avid is an excellent deck, Hard to fault. Which model are you getting? Having said that, I don't think the Acutus ref is any better than the top LP12 Radikal D Klimax, just different flavour. Cannot go wrong with either table. You won't be disappointed.

I have a Goldring Lenco 99 carefully set up with VERY modest components that sounds VERY acceptable and much better to listen to than a multi thousand £ Clearaudio deck that I screamed at myself for being so stupid to buy before hearing, and made as quick a loss on it as I could. Unfortunately, as in another thread, buying turntables is a game that has to take place in your own system and with your own listening preferences, as loan turntables are not really possible. It is not really much fun either in the wasted time and money. Having said that I am taking a further blind risk in January by buying off my friendly dealer the new £10k Avid deck! But I do trust him greatly as he is well familiar with my ears, preferences and system and is strangely invariably of the same opinions as me over the years, and many expensive purchases. He has not failed me yet - I suppose there  may be a first time!

Nobody seems to comment on the "looks" of the tt...  In my view, the classic looking tts (turntables just in case you were thinking of something else) look SOO much better, I can live with the slightly inferior sound.  After all, I think I see better than I hear :-)

@tatyana69 Unfortunately, there are so many negative opinions on this table on the various forums from folk who have never even heard the table, never mind owned it, that it is easy to get bad information about it on the www.
This is why I ask the many posters who are favoring the Technics or the Crossley ( ;0) ) over the LP12, as to what their experience is with it; and what ancillary gear they were using ( if any!).
Typically, i get answers that are just pathetic and clearly showing a total lack of experience with the LP12, or for that matter analog in general!

Your experience with the 1200G is unfortunate, but absolutely no surprise to me.

Correctly set up and with the latest upgrades ( Radikal D, Keel/Kore, Ekos Se-1,Tramp 2 and new plinth/Booplinth) the table competes at a level that very few can match, if any! IME.

@roberjerman How would you know what the ’so called upgrades’ can do, if you have never installed them...?? Pity, I think you are very much underestimating these products, and overestimating your experience with the table. Just because they are pricey, doesn’t automatically make them invalid, although I suppose in your mind it does!

I think a unipivot arm on a Linn would sound pretty fantastic I am sure.  Audio Origami makes a unipivot for a Linn?

I bought a Technics 1200G this year after reading favourable reviews. Now that was a mistake! I put a triplanar arm and Benz LP cartridge on it for good measure. I also have an LP12 with Audio Origami arm and Benz Lp cartridge, and cannot believe I lost all the musicality and "feel" that the LP12 brings to the table. Selling the Technics now, someone will be happy no doubt. I want to hear music, not just sound.

The so - called "upgrades" for the LP12 are just a way for Linn to extract money from the gullible! The plain basic LP12 has always sounded excellent! This I know from my 40 years experience with this TT!

The LP12 is a good value if you can find one used for about $1200 or less used - like I did!

When the LP12 was $1200 (originally $560 in 1976) it was a good value. Now at $5K + it is NOT! I am now on my second one, bought used from a seller in England for less than $1K used! Came with a Grace 707 arm. It is an earlier version without all the (stupid) tweaks - and sounds excellent!

Or, you go with a Well Tempered Arm on the Linn. That’s what I use and it’s a superb match up. The ‘Black’ arm has all of the imaging qualities of the Naim Aro with none of the downsides, IME.

It easily betters the VPI, no doubt about. It definitely does not better the technics, its a different sound, the technics has a very accurate sound, and the linn is quieter much warmer in the mids and the base is not as solid as direct drives. Actually, the only table I have heard that really is great for a belt drive in the price range of the G is the Well tempered Amadeus. Its great table that I believe performs at a Linn radical level but its very touchy on setup. with the 1200G setup is easier and the one thing that does affect its sound is the 3 screws on the platter that have to be tightened to taste. I did like the Linn, and I would not mind one as a second table if I could be certain that it did not go out of tune as often as some say.

Davey - I bought it and returned many times to an authorized Linn dealer for adjustments.   If owning a Linn requires more than that, its beyond my efforts.

Hello,
i have been owning an lp 12 for over 30 years now, never had complaints. Recently i bought a secondhand sondek akkurate with keel upgrade, since i am not pleased with the sound i removed the akito arm which has the looks of a 3b but the type nr under the tonearm says 2b. That's rather confusing. Has it been upgraded to 3b or is it a 2b with only some cosmetic changes?
I own a Mcintosh amp and I love it, not bad for a European, don't you think?
Greetings from Belgium.

If the OP is asking "does anyone still buy these" the answer is yes, and that's because it's an excellent product.  

Mine is less than a year old, and I was able to get it as a lightly used ex-demo for less than 50% of regular retail with a full new warranty.  It already had a Lingo 3, and my local dealer - who is excellent - switched out the arm and cartridge for new ones before I picked it up.   For me that's a fantastic value.  My dealer set it up in my listening room and it's never needed a single adjustment since.  

Some seem to forget there's no right or wrong with audio.  What one person likes another may not.  Sound is subjective, but build quality and the like are not - and here again the LP12 for me scores well.  It is a quality, well-built, well-engineered product.  I'm glad I have one, would recommend it to others, and look forward to upgrading mine as we go forward.  

Unipivots have their own unique strengths .. I went from an Ittok to the Aro.. I was quite shocked at the differences of the 2 arms.. The Aro/unipivot was musical, relaxed music flow was excellent.. But the very low bass was somewhat missing and not so punchy.. Ideally I'm love to combine the best of both. Yes, tonearms do affect the overall sound,  so take note when comparing unipivot vs non-unipivot tonearm systems. 

 @tzh21y  The old Linn cartridge would go a long way to explain why you heard what you did. Scantech made Linn cartridges years ago...and currently make their Kandid cartridge ( which is a very nice cartridge). Unfortunately, the old models from decades ago, leave a lot to be desired. 
Also, I am no fan of the Linn speakers and amps, they are typically veiled and not that resolving. Therefore, the end result would probably be like you described;but I can tell you, with the table and arm set up correctly, plus a great cartridge, like a current Lyra, the table sounds nothing like you described...and easily betters the VPI and the Technics. IMHO, there really is no contest.
The context is very important here, and unfortunately what you heard is not what a top of the line LP12klimax truly sounds like.

the cartridge was an old Linn cart, I think it was made by Lyra for Linn

the arm was an Ekos 2 and the system was top of the line Linn.  The scout had a unipivot arm on it and that may attribute to the difference as it has a more wide open sound, not as accurate as the ekos but different.

@tzh21y   What was the rest of the system when you heard the LP12 ..and with what cartridge? What arm was on the LP12 and mounted on the VPI? Same cartridge on both tables?

I do think the Sondek is a great table when it is set up correctly.  I have come to find out that the dealer I went to passed away and believe me, he knew what he was doing.  He was a great guy, probably one of the most thoughtful and engaging of all the dealers I have met.  I liked to table. the table setup was probably around 18K.  It was a deep stage but it did sound somewhat colored but very pleasing to the ear.  I was actually going to buy an LP 12 and he was even thinking of selling me his ekos 2 with it.  However when I came home and listened to the scout. i was a little shocked.  I attribute it to the unipivot arm on the VPI but certain things did sound better on the VPI to my ears and my ears may not be as good as yours but I could not understand the large price tag.  Also the bass was definitely not as good as on the 1200G.  I still would get a LP12 if I could find one at a decent fair price for what you are getting.  I might have been more interested if that dealer was still here.  4 hours for a tune up is a long drive both ways.

okay let me clarify, the American Sound turntable according to audiophile reviews is one of the best turntables.  Why are you laughing.... you don't think so.....

@viridian. +1

 @tzh21y  “The American Sound is one of the best turntables in the world”, LOL!!
Why would you think that....???

the American Sound is one of the best turntables in the world

the analysis of the Strat and the Gretsch is a perfect analogy.

i guess my table with upgrades is a Les Paul

 @paulcreed   Again and again I guess i have to repeat the same old thing....THIS TABLE SOUNDS VERY DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON ITS VINTAGE!!!! 

If you heard an older model with the Valhalla power supply and the old Ittok arm, what you stated makes some sense, IF you heard a new Klimax versions with the Radikal D and the newer Ekos Se..or another great arm, like a 4 point 9...it makes no sense!
Compared to most American tables, I guess you are talking VPI's here...then I personally wouldn't swap the LP12 for any of them.

Your analogy with guitars makes me laugh...The Gretch is good for rockabilly and some jazz, that's what I use it for; the Strat and the Tele ( you forgot that one) is what i use for leads and everything else....
Not really a great analogy, IME. 

These tables are almost 50 years old. They have been passed down, bought, sold, shipped in any box laying around. Sitting in basements for years. Cartridge install with arm mounted. Shipped with platter in place and tone arm mounted. Then people listen to them and judge them. Or they listen to them set up perfectly and don't like them. It doesn't matter. There ears don't like the sound. As for me Dave I've never damaged anything. Yes, the Linn is colored to me. It has bloated bass, piano's are veiled in its basic form, which can be fun to listen to. The ittok to me is a little bright. Colored to what? Any table that goes for perfect studio play back sound, huge bass, super detailed, the big American sound. I find the Linn to be smooth with all the detail I need in a relaxing presentation. To me I call that's coloration vs the American sound. Maybe compare an old hollow body Gretch vs a Fender Strat. The Gretch has more body and soul  but the Strat is cleaner and faster, you pick what grabs you.

I am not sure how often any of the posters go to the orchestra.  I go often.  In all honesty and this is with my ears, a good direct drive sounds more like the real thing than most belt drives.  The Linn LP 12 to my ears, does not sound as much like the real thing.  Its sounds more like a recording of the real thing I guess is a way to put it.  However, the sound a Linn makes although somewhat colored, is very nice to listen to.  The Linn as well as many belt drives do not have the drive and the dynamics of a real orchestra.  That being said, I still like the way the Linn sounds.  Its very pleasing to the ear.  Many times by isolating power supply you can get blacker backgrounds and some direct drives allow for the power supply to be in a separate chassis.  The Linn offers a separate power supply which does allow for pretty black backgrounds, no doubt about it.  If I had one, I would probably keep it and upgrade it.  It is a worthy table for sure.

 @paulcreed  The LP12 is colored..compared to what?? Your Sony CD player!LOL. Spindle bearing can be damaged easily???? What the heck are you doing to that poor table, LOL. Bouncing it around in the back of your truck, like someone else here, LMAO. 
The Linn sound --what is that? Lose the Linn sound and keep the Linn sound...come on sunshine!

@cd318, Where on earth do you come by the idea I am a dealer,LOL. If I were a dealer, i certainly wouldn’t be wasting my time trying to convince anyone of the merits of gear on forums, particularly those that are tone deaf to my offerings, LMAO.
Since I am a CURRENT owner of the LP12 Radikal D, and have owned one version or another for more than thirty years, I would think that my ’opinion’ of the table might count more than someone who either has a) never owned the table, or b) has never heard one, or c) owned one decades ago and hasn’t since...LOL. Like most of the posters on this thread!
Do you fall into one of those categories...LMAO again!!!!

Maybe if people could understand when listening to a Linn in basic form it is colored. Many are not set up correctly. Linn arms are prone to bearing damage. Spindle bearing can be damaged easily. The more up grade you lose the Linn sound. For me I up grade to lose the Linn sound while keeping the Linn sound. Sounds crazy but this is a crazy hobby. There is a happy medium in keeping the coloration. This concept is hard for most people to understand. Lp12/ Naim Aro/ Keel/ Cirkus/ Pink Link power supply, will I keep upgrading maybe.

cd318

... it's easily been the most hyped product in the entire history of domestic audio since it's rather dubious origins.

That's just silly. If you're talking about over-hyped audio products, it's tough to top the Bose 901s. On the other hand, the Linn LP12 still delivers excellent performance, even if it's not to your taste. Neither does the Linn have "dubious origins." In fact, it's especially easy to trace its lineage, so I'm not sure what your point is. One thing for certain: there are many people who have a distaste for the LP12. It's a polarizing product. I've never understood why, even though it's not my preference either.