I thought I’d chime in as I am a relatively new LP12 owner. I bought a new Akurate spec deck about 6 months ago and am loving it. The most fun sound to listen to. My streamer is neglected now. I had it set up by an experienced dealer in the northern US. I am not a seasoned user yet but it doesn’t really seem like it will do anything but keep playing good music. Lastly, I really like the styling. It looks good in our living room. Some of the other audiophile turntables are a bit much for me visually.
I had a couple well tuned (by a reputable Linn dealer) LP12s. Absolutely loved them. Found that the Well Tempered Amadeus provided the same great presentation and tone without the maintenance and upgrade hassles.
I had initially looked at all the cool aftermarket Linn LP12 parts such as the various sub chassis, top plates and motors. Since I am across the pond in the US and the LP12 does not have as much exposure these days, I felt it would be easier to work with my dealer with standard Linn parts but with the custom plinth.
The nice thing about the LP12 is there are many options and I personally have enjoyed learning about the history of the LP12 and what all the various upgrades and options do. Will help make better and more informed choices.
Thanks to those who chime in. All your thoughts are very appreciated and helpful.
Thanks! I also discovered that the Kuzma 4point9 fits my "Keel-Klone" Greenstreet sub-chassis. So, Kuzma in addition to Javelin. Not to mention the various, well-received Audio Origami arms.
marktrav, Thanks for sharing I'm using a Lingo 1 now... might want to try the Mober next, the Mober is much more affordable compared to the Radikal. The Javelin looks like a very well engineered arm.. been receiving many good feedbacks. I'm sure it'll be a good upgrade for your system.
I bought a used LP-12 with a Cirkus upgrade off e-Bay about 2 years ago. I already had a Linn Ittok LV-II arm.
I upgraded the power supply and motor to a DC powered motor (Mober - see honmo2000 eBay seller). First time I’d heard a sustained piano note stay solid as a rock.
I upgraded the subchassis with a Greenstreet Audio sub-chassis. First thing I noticed as a benefit is the arm to spindle geometry was accurate to a point that was beyond my ability to measure it. It fit my LP-12/ittok jig perfect. The standard sub-chassis/armboard in the lower end LP-12s allow for an infinite array of geometry mis-alignments. It’s not hard to align, but the Greenstreet (and Linn’s Keel) completely takes the geometry issue out of the equation.
Next, I upgraded the bearing and sub-platter with one developed by honmo2000. The surface noise dropped enough to warrant the purchase.
I then added a Tiger Paw Tranquility between the bearing and platter which dropped the surface noise again. There is no noise getting from the sub-chassis/bearing to the playing surface now.
I’m very intrigued by the Tiger Paw Javelin arm as a replacement for the Ittok and that will probably be my next upgrade.
I am currently running a VandenHul Frog that replaced a Dynavector XX-II Mk2.
The LP-12 is an excellent deck to start a journey towards making it state of the art through third-party upgrades. I am not the type who would spend the money for a new LP-12 of any spec, especially the top line spec, which is essentially what I have now, except for the arm. And I have a LOT less invested than a top-spec LP-12. It is equivelant to, and it some ways better than, the exact same recorded piece of music over my Ayre DSD.
I wouldn’t replace this table with anything on the current market until I was ready to look at linear-tracking tonearms and foot-thick acrylic platter tables. And I’m saying that partially tongue-in-cheek.
My current (and probably final) system is Parasound JC-3+, Parasound JC-2, Dual ATI AT524NC amps powering a pair of analog x-over Linkwitz LX-521 speakers, all connected with VandenHul Rock or better. My digital front-end is an Ayre QB-9 DSD.
Feel free to post or PM me if you have any questions for your Chris Harban LP12 build. Chris works with Peter Swain by providing plinths for the tables Peter sets up all around the world. There are also some very well respected LP12 dealers here in the US who will gladly work with you if you live here.
I am the one who posted that I have a Chris Harban cocobolo plinth. When this plinth is locked together with a rigid top plate like Tangerine Audio's Karmen, combined with Linn's one piece aluminum Keel, you have a TT that reduces resonances so effectively that the noise floor drops very low (provided the rest of the system is clean). Good luck with the build, it is an amazing start to a very satisfying system.
Been following this thread with interest and wanted to chime in with my two cents. I have not had a turntable since high school and recently decided to get back into it, I looked at and have considered many different options and decided a new LP12 was going to be a good choice for me. Why?
1. I can build the table to the level I would like at this time with room to grow. Most likely will be somewhere between Malik and Akurate.
2. Unlike most pieces of equipment it is upgradeable when I feel the need with both Linn and third party options.
3. Until Linn shut down their forum - a strong user base is out there willing to share knowledge and experience. There are a few other options but nothing is currently a replacement for the old forum.
4. Heritage. While there are many fine options for a turntable purchase, the overall vibe of the LP12 is a good fit for me.
One of the other posters mentioned he had a Chris Harban plinth. For this project, I decided to have one of these made for me and is part of my initial build. I had both technical and aesthetic reasons for my choice of plinth and feel it will add to my over all enjoyment of the turntable for years to come. With few exceptions, this type of option is generally not available with other systems.
While we may not always agree on gear, not really sure why something like the LP12 is so divisive.
Hi davey - before you go could you answer my earlier question concerning your post of.......
01-06-2019 1:49am
"Having placed the Kuzma into the same system as the LP12 Klimax, all who heard the system preferred the Linn....that day and with the same ancillary gear and same room....how many can say that about the listening experience that they had...can you dctom?"
i.e which Kuzma TT/ arm/cartridge were you comparing the Linn to?
This is my last post on this thread. I’m done trying to get people to listen to a current Linn LP12 model and have an open mind. All I can say is that if the table was so very poor sounding, I doubt so many would have sold...and continue to be in high demand worldwide. If one has to seek out a Linn dealer, that is common with almost all gear in high end...that’s why it is high end and not midfi ---one doesn’t have the option of buying it at your local mart. The set up, like all technical gear, has to be done by someone who knows what they are doing and has had some training, not by any ’tinkerer’ who happens to be good at auto repairs. Are there better tables out there, sure there are..but not IME at the price level..one has to spend considerably more. I’m going back to enjoying the music on my Linn LP12 Radikal D...the others can keep on arguing and guessing/postulating at what the SQ is.
davey, you take things personal. I have nothing against the LP12. I guess I should have never said that the 1200G smokes the LP12 just because I think its better to my ears. Its all personal preference and system dependent and their are many tables that are very good. I have spoken to Linn experts that actually travel the country and come from other countries to tune in the Linns so they are still very relevant so if that tells you how I feel about Linns that I actually looked into what is involved with their upkeep and have tried to audition a Linn recently and I am forced to travel 100’s of miles to do so. Then you need somebody to come from another state or country to tune it up because nobody locally can do it correctly. If you have figure out how to get the most out of it, thats great.
The last LP12 I had was in 2005 current spec at the time, lingo 2 etc. I initially used naim electronics with it - then a BAT ph10 se, BAT 51se and Benz ebony LP - much better than the naim sound. I used the same Bat gear and cart with the sme and Kuzma so consistent ancillaries. Yes I am sure the LP12 has improved since then, so has everything else. As I said my friend's Linn gives me some insight to the current Linn sound. I live in the UK and there is still a big Linn following the same with naim. Go on the naim forums and posters believe in nothing else. I am sure your Linn sounds great - btw was it the XL DC kuzma and 4pt, cartridge? - when you did your comparison? As you say the ancillary equipment can influence the result positively or negatively with any gear . I have done quite a bit of experimentation with cartridges, arm and phonostages - some combination just don't work.
@tzh21y LOL, don’t get so upset! The Linn is a great table that tends to get a raw deal on forums and from folks like you. Personally, i couldn’t care one bit if you can hear what it does well or not. Is it the best table in the world, of course not- and it depends on your listening habits and other variables, ( i’m not claiming it is, BTW..and nowhere can you see that i stated such a stupid comment). Do i come on forums and push back on people who no experience with the table, but are only too happy to naysay and disseminate false information... yes, I do.
Daveyf, the Linn is not the end all be all table. No table is. if he likes the Kuzma better, to him its better, there is no reason try to figure out why the Linn did not sound better. To him it did not anymore. Just like others who had Linns and maybe want to try something else. The Linn is a very good table, no doubt, but its got plenty of challengers and thats just the way it is.
@dctom How many years ago did you own the LP12? What version was it? Here’s the other issue that seems to crop up frequently, that is the ancillary gear that people listen, or listened to, is very very different from set up to set up....but the table is always the culprit...this makes no sense to me. Having placed the Kuzma into the same system as the LP12 Klimax, all who heard the system preferred the Linn....that day and with the same ancillary gear and same room....how many can say that about the listening experience that they had...can you dctom?
I had Linns for 20yrs. Went through the upgrade cycle Linn so cleverly incorporated into ownership. Compared my dealer set up LP12 to a mitchell orbe fitted with an ekos and Lyra cart, as was my Linn - preferred the Orbe. My initial replacement was a sme 20 - more resolving, increased texture in the bass a more neutral sound. I now have a Kuzma Xl which never ceases to amaze me with it's sense of scale, detail, depth, sound stage, instrument placement etc. The LP12 could never render a convincing sweep of a large orchestra, or hold my attention for hours like the Kuzma. Obviously the newer LP12s are much improved but it is essentially the same technology. A friend has a new mid priced LP12 - I prefer his naim digital output on most recordings.
@daveyf Absolutely true. The ability to upgrade is a positive not a negative. Through the years as technology evolved, Linn incorporated these changes into their TTs. Over time this forward thinking approach has been adopted by many other audio brands from IC cables to electronics. This is one of the beauties of audio. Those who don't have the $$ to purchase reference level components from the start can enjoy incremental improvements over time. When you grow a system this way you really do appreciate the nuances of how EVERYTHING contributes to the sound you hear. As with most things in life, this hobby/lifestyle of ours is a journey not an end game. Enjoy the journey and appreciate the music each each and every day for what it is, not what it isn't.
@zavato Nice post. I do think that if you were in the market today, even though like you stated, there are some good table choices, that the LP12 Magik would still beat out the likes of a VPI Prime. Certainly it would be no contest between the Prime and an Akurate level LP12. Even though your LP12 is on its 21st year, you could easily upgrade it to the Akurate level or beyond, thereby saving a part of your initial investment. This, imo, is what makes this particular table still so attractive in today’s market, because how many other tables can you say that about?
I bought my LP12 in 1998 so I’m happy to say that as of Tuesday I’m into 21st year of LP12 ownership. I have heard a lot of tables over the years. None are perfect but I’m pefectly content with my LP12 and have zero desire to change tables. It’s utterly engaging and enjoyable. But I will gladly acknowledge that these days there are many excellent tables to chose from and I’ll also readily admit were I starting from scratch today, the VPI Prime would be high on my list.
I have owned LP12's for the past 35 years evolving through various incarnations over time. Presently my deck is a "full spec" Klimax LP12 with a Karmen top plate and a Chris Harban cocobolo plinth locking everything together into a solid foundation for those lowest octaves. The table was assembled in my home here in the USA by Peter Swain. It NEVER goes out of tune, and is one of the most musical front ends I have heard in direct A/B comparisons. This completely assembled deck still costs less than many of the newest digital front ends I compare it with. Find yourself an experienced dealer who knows how to set these tables up in your home and you will have one of the most engaging analogue sources from which to grow a system.
My System; LP12>Pass electronics>Thiel speakers; using a loom of Chord Sarum T throughout. (Soon upgrading to pre-owned Tidal Piano speakers when I find the right pair)
@daveyf , you have made your opinion clear time and time again. And again and again.
Why do you repeatedly feel you have the right to denigrate other opinions which don't coincide with yours? Time after time, again and again with absolutely nothing new to add.
Try to resist answering my friend, it's a rhetorical question. Go on, you can do this.
@cd318 Says he who couldn’t figure out why his brief ownership of an LP12 didn’t go well fifteen years ago and went on to a what?? a Crossley or no table at all...but is still experienced in all things Linn LP12. You have to love it.
its quite sad that you just can’t respect anyone else’s experiences and have to cast dispersions as to their credibility if they don’t agree with yours. It’s almost like you have to “Trump” anyone’s negative experiences with an LP12.
Once again to answer the @theoriginalthor1
Not many people buy Linn anymore because they are overpriced and better turntables can be had for equal or less money.
They have a distinct sound that appeals to some.
Unfortunately, some of that “some” have to inflict their rightness on the rest of us analog lovers, which does nothing to help attract people to the Linn portfolio.
@dsholl1 Just like you are quite the expert in Linn tables. Only difference is that I have heard the Kuzma on many occasions and with varying systems. Just like you have with the Linn...right??
I just got into vinyl a few years ago after hearing an older Linn in my AV showroom. My colleague brought his in and connected to our McIntosh demo system prior to the Mcintosh MT5 arrival. Hearing that LP12 play so much more musically than all the digital I had been accustomed to was an eye opener and I needed it. I then acquired through trade a fairly modern LP 12 withal serial number in the 95,000's. I think it was made in early 2,000's. I upgraded to the Lingo 4. It has an Akito with Adikt cart. No keel or kore yet. My friend who set it up said it was hardly used and in great shape. The problem he mentioned is with the Akito headshell and the fact that you can’t properly fit any cartridge onto it. He got to what he considers 70% of Peak performance, and its offset a bit on the headshell. He said if I want to grind off the connection pins on the arm and solder the connections instead, I would then be able to move the cart back further where it belongs. Unfortunately this would permanently alter the arm and who knows what happens to resell value. He said he has laid into Linn on many occasions for manufacturing this arm. He recommends I get a used ekos2.
For what it’s worth I brought the MT 5 home and have done direct comparisons. The Linn definitely sounds better to me. Larger soundstage and more musicality, liveliness. I was even biased toward liking the MT5 because my wife likes the look and matches the other Mcintosh I have.
@tzh21y Really!! Since you know my system better than i do, please do enlighten us all as to what specific equipment you are talking about that I don’t own, but comment on. Let me tell you, if I comment on equipment, I either do own it ( like the LP12 Radikal D, which you have ABSOLUTELY no experience with whatsoever), or have extensive experience listening to it in person. So get a clue.
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