It's a match made in heaven.
:-) |
About two hours ago I inserted a pair of Supra Ply 3.4W speaker cables into my rig and had to listen for two straight hours. They aren't even broken in yet and they mop the floor with my Clear Day single run SCs, Tempo Electric SCs, Mapleshade Helix and Double Helix SCs and Zu Mission SCs.
The clincher is they only set me back $214 with shipping and some really nice Supra Combicon BFA bananas. Give me a week and I'll wax poetic about them.
:-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
After finding out that Lars (owner of Sjofn Hi Fi) had a stroke and was the only distributor of Supra cables stateside, I emailed Supra directly in Sweden and asked if they could help me out or if I should go for a retailer in England.
They must have forwarded it to Lars since he replied about a week later saying he could send me the cables. I hope I didn't inconvenience him since he's still recovering from the stroke but he sent me a PayPal invoice which I payed and three days later the cables arrived.
Sjofnhifi.com is still under maintenance but you can always email him at
zendada@w-link.net (his ebay name is zendada) and see if he's up to helping you out. I hope this doesn't overtax him or maybe he has an assistant who's helping out. I really felt bad about it at first but everything went well.
If it doesn't work out, divineaudio.uk has comparable prices even with the added postage. I was going to order from them until I got the email from Lars. You can access them directly or on ebay.com.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I did the same and the seller still has wire. Lots of wire. Some in red cloth and some in black but with different or no writing on the wire. There's no reason to think it's different as batches will vary over time when it comes to what's printed on it. They both are 25 strands of tinned copper.
There's also some 14ga of about 40 strands of tinned copper from around the same era and who's to say how that would sound?
All the best,
Nonoise |
Kclone, I understand the aspect of availability and ease of purchase and it's why I hesitated buying from a retailer in England. Considering it's only a 7 day wait for Royal Mail to anywhere in the world (claimed) it might be worth it.
Having said that, I tried the shotgun and single wire versions of Clear Day with some demos sent out and settled on the single wire as the shotguns were too much midrange centric with those rolled off highs and fattened lows that don't appeal to me, in the context of my (then) system. And that's what it all settles down to: what sounds best in your system.
Not having the same setup now I think I can safely say that it would be similar to how it now sounds using single and double Helix Mapleshade SCs. The singles are not quite right and the doubles take it even further in the wrong direction: too much midrange and bass and those rolled off highs.
I would never have thought that tinned, stranded copper would sound better than single, solid core silver, which I've always loved, but what worked in my older system doesn't in my present system.
The devil is in the details and he's having too much fun with cables for my taste.
:-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
Yes, you can skip the terminations and just use the bare ends. Three meter pairs will set you back about $90.00.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I think what they were referring to was the act of soldering the exposed bare wire ends, which is known as 'tinning'. It's done to prevent oxidation of the copper. It follows that soldering is just adding another layer of disparate metal(s) between the wire itself and the terminations or connecting post, which is undesirable. Some say all that's needed is a good and tight cold crimping.
What I'm referring to with the Supra Ply cables when mentioning tinning is that the whole length of each 192 copper wires is covered with actual tin. Supposedly it minimizes the skin effect to negligible, prevents oxidation, and restricts interaction between each of the strands.
All I know is that it sounds really good.
On another note, I checked out Lars' ebay listings to see if the 3.4W cables were listed only to note that the 3.4 standard cables were in very short supply with a note stating that terminations could be omitted and just use bare ends to better effect, going the old school route. I trust he wasn't overloaded with demand since he's still recovering. It's good to see he's working and I hope it helps.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mikirob,
Wonderful post. When I first wrote about this Supra wire I only had about 10 hours on it and honestly thought it couldn't get any better. I was told by Lars that I'd be pleasantly surprised at around 80-100 hours and experienced widening of the soundstage accompanied with attendant detail and layering around the 40-50 hour mark. Everything is more than up a notch but not a whiff of etch or glassiness. Relaxed, or as you've described, organic, better texture and tone.
I though I'd lost a bit of impact and reach with the lower notes but it all comes through in, again, a more natural and organic way. Everything is so nicely balanced.
I don't know what it is with this 3.4W version as the 2.5, although good, is in a lessor league. Similar formulae but different execution seems to be the ticket. I'd love to have been able to compare the Western Electric 16ga wire just to see how the Supras compare. Something tells me they'd be kissing cousins.
It's nice to know it's not my imagination playing tricks with me as you've witnessed similar results with similar wire. I'll check out the Jeff Day Word Press Blog as well. Thank you for your thoughts and encouragement as it's nice to get such a detailed and informative response.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mikirob,
Yes, I read the blog on the cables and glanced at his other postings. Jeff is about as deep into this hobby as anyone can be and is all the better for it. We should all be so lucky. It seems the WE16ga has less strands and of a larger gauge (individual, not total) than the Supras which leads me to believe they might impart more body or weight but I wonder if it is at the cost of some detail. It's all academic until someone can compare the two.
When I checked into the ebay listings for NOS WE16ga speaker wire there were so many listings, and most of a different variety. A quick look at other sites about these cables showed the lucky ones who got them (lucky you!). It seems that the legit sellers they mention are hard to find, if not already gone. I must banish the thought of getting some or my audio nervosa will kick in. :-)
The Supras are good enough right now for the long haul. They keep improving and making all my old CDs sound so new as they portray how the music should sound, instead of an approximation.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Czarivey,
I don't know if God had a hand in making these Supra Ply 3.4W cables but keep in mind they are made in Sweden so maybe the Norse gods had something to do with it.
As for New Haven, it has been described as god's country, but so have lots of places.
All the best,
Nonoise |
"would-a. could-a, should-a, didn't" defines the story of my life too.
Enjoy your new cables.
All the best,
Nonoise |
The conventional wisdom is to just use the bare ends. Although convenient, terminations may impart their own sonic signature. I for one, can't really tell the difference with absolute certainty. Having said that, is this close? If not, try here. All the best, Nonoise |
When it comes to speaker cable, it's the same with me: it's too expensive to experiment. As tempted as I am to buy some bulk WE wire, I'm going to sit this one out as the Supra's are still breaking in and getting better all the while.
Last night I listened to a CD that I've heard hundreds of times over the last few years for the first time. There it was, all laid out before me in the most natural and organic way. It was the most effortless presentation I've heard yet not in the least forward or forceful unless dictated by the musicians. Every single note, nuance and musical inflection came through, right as rain. No highlighting, etch, or glare contributed to the effect.
It could almost be described as laid back. I now see why some reviewers cite that phrase as nothing needs to be exaggerated to convince you you're hearing the real thing as intended. It's a complete, full bodied gestalt of a presentation that can lull you into the performance and shock you with the dynamics when called for.
I'm loving it.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Here are the listings for the wire and here are the comments on the cables. All the best, Nonoise |
If the WE 16ga speaker wire is anything like the Supra Ply 3.4W, then 100 hrs sounds about right. My Supras were great out of the box and just got better and better as the hours piled on. I thought that at 50 hrs they wouldn't get any better but I was so wrong on that account. They got even better after the 100 hr mark.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mikirob,
Looks like you have lots to look forward to. Luckily, my Clearwave Duet 6 monitors are already internally wired with Supra tinned, stranded copper wire so there is some kind of continuity in place now doing it's magic. From the amp to the crossovers, and on to the speaker drivers, the wire is all the same. I couldn't ask for more as the wire's contribution to the voicing is about constant as it can be. That might have a lot to do with it.
Whether it's the 'absolute truth', I wouldn't dare say but it's the best I've heard in my room. Like I've already stated, everything is so open, clean, clear, relaxed and yet dynamic and extended with not a hint of glare or harshness. It's still digital in nature but not like what I'm used to hearing. To say it's more like analogue would be a reach, but not a great reach as it tends to the smoothness of analogue but retains the better qualities of digital.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It's questionable, to me. My Supras run parallel to each other with nary a twist and with barely any separation between them but then, they were designed that way.
I realize it's a completely different make of cable but it's similar in concept so maybe it's not necessary.
All the best,
Nonoise |
John421, if you go with something like I have (Supra 3.4W speaker cables), make sure you give them a good 100 hours to break in. Mine were great at 20, even better at 50 and so much better at 100. This applies to all cables (IMHO).
I saw an ad here recently for a pair of Supra 3.4S with only 50 hours on them and if the seller only knew what was in store for him, he would have kept them and then decided if he wanted to keep them or not.
From what I gather here on this thread, it's the formulae of tinned copper stranded wire that works so well, regardless of whether it's NOS or some current brand. As long as it's high quality copper, it shouldn't matter. The technical differences will arise in strand count, gauge, and amp to speaker pairing (that's another whole can of worms). :-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
If tajacobs only knew what he COULD sell it for.... |
Teresa needs to take another bite of the apple and start her own line of cables.:-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
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I know this is all about the WE 16ga wire but I've added to the conversation about the Supra Ply 3.4W speaker wire (which is also tinned stranded copper) and I'm experiencing nothing of the sort being described here as to the too dense midrange and rolled off or shelved highs.
What highs I do have are no longer piercing or etched and lack the air that I thought was natural but now feel is much more accurate. They are articulate and go on in the realm of decay and ambience but no longer shine and shimmer at the expense of body and weight.
As good as the WE 16ga wire is, maybe the Supra is better as it simply gets out of the way of the music and seems, to my ears, to leave no fingerprints.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It's good to know that this can all be from using a double run version. It reminds me of the same effect that a shotgun set of Clear Day speaker cable had to the regular set.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Brownsfan,
Your 14ga wire should sound just fine. My Supras (somewhat similar in design) are 190 tinned strands coming in at 12ga and they sound wonderful. Let us know how it works out.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Salectric,
I read that article over at "High Fidelity" a couple of days ago (Pacula's personal review site) and tend to agree with his findings. I say 'tend' as the Supras that I use exhibit most of the qualities he mentions but seem to have a more stable nature with bass (nothing seems rolled off) but the highs do have that 'shelved' quality where it's all there but not 'in your face' which is how I now prefer it.
Some CDs have a simply wonderful high end minus the glare compared to others so I have to say that the 'shelved' quality is probably more an accurate quality since it depends on the material played (how it was recorded). I can't attest to the WE 16ga but the Supras can really shine.
If I had any doubts as to a 'shelved' high end it was laid to rest when watching 'John Wick' on blu-ray. There's a scene where he tears up his basement floor with a sledgehammer and the metallic ring that precedes the concussive bass of the sledge breaking the concrete is quite jarring. After the first blow I had to brace myself for the next few. The highs are there when called for and not one iota more. I like that.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mikirob,
I hope they work as well for you as they do for me. I was told by Lars at Sfojn that they need about 100 hours to set and at the 40-50 hour mark I thought they couldn't do better. At around the 100 hour mark they did.
Now it may all be my imagination but I've gone way beyond the 100 hour mark and they seem to allow a bit more here and there and this is with very familiar CDs.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I use the Supra 3.4W which is a compressed version of the standard 3.4 without the shielding (you can get the standard 3.4 either way). It's inductance is .05 lower than the standard 3.4 but I don't know if it's easily discernible between the two while listening. Looking at it crosscut you'd think, at first, it was copper foil, one run atop the other. It came out in 2014 so there's not much in the way of reviews out there that I could find.
All I know is it sounds very good and is more coherent across the board and betters the Supra 2.5 which I also have.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way so please set me aright if I am but I believe Salectric's and Volleyguy1's ears to be as good as anyone else's here. Name dropping a bunch of folk who like what they hear and prefer it to what's currently favored doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's simply a preference on what they hear and favor.
Is this how cults start?
There's an old saw that goes something like:
"I'll defend anyone searching for the truth but will fight anyone who claims to have found it."
I think that applies here.
There is no 'absolute sound'. Even from different makes, what this tinned wire does is pretty amazing. My Supras offer the best compromise yet in my system. (Notice I'm not afraid to use the word 'compromise' since that's exactly what it is).
This is the second time folk have been denigrated for their views. The first time it was 'misunderstood humor'. It could be I'm being too thinned skinned since this is an online forum but that's my take.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mikirob,
I still complement you on your find. I even agree with much of what you've said. It's just that you seem to get your hackles up when someone diverges from your point of view and you bring in Day and Yazaki-san and all the loyal followers as if your point of view needs validation when just your point of view will do.
I believe what you hear: it's very close to what I hear. 'Nuf said.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mikirob,
I understand. No harm meant. We just have different styles.
All the best,
Nonoise |
On Jeff Days's blog site it shows his cables being "cooked" on a device as part of his break in process. I, myself, enjoy the many and varied twists and turns a cable takes. Just when I think it's reached it's potential, I always love it when I'm 'disappointed' by yet another level of improvement. :-)
My Supras are nothing short of amazing and I truly hope all of you enjoy the same level of satisfaction with your WE 16ga cables.
On another note, I read a review of Triode Wire Labs power cords and the maker, Peter Grzybowski, uses wire designed by Western Electirc decades ago for use in theater amp applications including 300B amps and Westrex recording equipment. It seems Western Electric was on to something and companies like Supra did their due diligence in designing their line.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Hey guys,
Experimenting is fun since all systems are different and even sound different to different ears (too much difference?). I just had to crow about my Supras (since they are part of this thread) and how they continually break in and please me to no end.
Intentionally, I didn't listen to all of my favorites and decided to wait until I'd achieve somewhat complete break in. One CD is the soundtrack to 'Game of Thrones'. Period sound with period instruments (or made to sound like). Delicious on the micro level and stupendous on the macro.
I've never heard tympani pound and resonate like this before (and this is a favorite of mine). The inflections by the musicians on the quieter end of the spectrum come through (not so) loud and clear. It's that ability to sift and sort out the delicacies and nuances, timing and tempo, which furthers the enjoyment.
Again, there is no digital bombast of etch and harshness. The only thing different are my ICs (which have more than enough hours to be considered broken in) and these Supra cables. These Supras seem to have opened up that "bottleneck" and released a torrent of musical information but not at the expense of anything natural, anything of ease. Pacing and timing seem almost analogue.
I just hope that you who are experiencing the WE 16ga wires are 'hearing' what I'm hearing.
All the best,
Nonoise
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