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Looking for speakers with soundstage depth

I guess that's what it's called. There have been some really nice speakers in my system over the last few years including Vandersteen 2CE signatures, Meadowlark Audio Kestrel IIs, Revel Performa M-20s and a few others. The Revels were the most accurate speakers I've owned but when I pulled my trusty old Kestrel Hot Rods out of the closet I was once again caught by there very natural and fun to listen to sound. Even though over the past four months I've had numerous "never heard tha in there before" moments with the Revels, I sold them.
What the small, unassuming Kestrel HRs give me is a 3 dimensional soundstage that none of the other speakers could match. It was also the first time I had hooked them to the Bel Canto eVo2i which was an eye opener. BTW, I'm pretty much convinced it's the coherent time alignment that contributes the effect.
So my question is what speakers under 2K (used) will provide what I'm looking for? The newer Thiel 1.6 or Thiel 2.3 might do it. Maybe something like a pair of Magnepan 12s?
My room is small but well treated. Any suggestions or should I just stop looking? Thanks.
timrhu
shadys
10 posts
 
I have a pair of magnepan mg12s that do a great job at image depth provided I get them out into the room, say 3+ feet fro the wall.  With good recordings the image depth often appears to go beyond the front wall.
audiokinesis
2,740 posts
 

Shadys wrote:  "I have a pair of magnepan mg12s that do a great job at image depth provided I get them out into the room, say 3+ feet from the wall.  With good recordings the image depth often appears to go beyond the front wall."

YESSS!!!

That is exactly what I have found with dipole speakers.  Once you get beyond about 3 feet (and 5 feet is REALLY good), just about everything - including in particular the soundstage depth - improves.  Here is what is happening, I think:

The ear/brain system judges the size of the room by the time delay between the first-arrival sound and the "center of gravity" of the reflections.  As you move dipole speakers farther out from the wall behind them, you are delaying the onset of the reflected backwave, and thereby correspondingly pushing that "center of gravity" back in time.  The ear/brain system interprets this as "you're in a bigger room", and thus super-imposes less "small room signature" on top of the recording. 

Along similar lines, in designing a recording studio, the acoustician tries to prevent significant early reflections from reaching the recording engineer's ears in the control room earlier than the natural reflections in the live room where the recording was made.  This way the recording engineer can hear the natural reverberation of the live room without the (typically smaller) control room superimposing a "small room signature" on top of what the engineer is hearing through the monitors.

I take advantage of this characteristic of human hearing in some of my designs by bouncing reflections off the ceiling, thereby adding time delay to those reflections similar to the backwave of a dipole speakers pulled out into the room a good five feet or so.  You can hear the soundstage depth collapse when the additional up-firing reflections are turned off.

Duke

dave_b's avatar
dave_b
3,159 posts
 
Totally rad Duke!
soix
9,581 posts
 
Agree there is something about time n phase correct speakers.  I auditioned the Thiel CS1.6es at home and they were really great with imaging and sounstaging.  And NO, they weren't bright sounding -- quite refined actually.  My hesitation is that they're no longer in business, and as an owner of another defunct speaker make I can tell you it's like walking on eggshells.  At some point something can blow and you could be screwed.  Then again, as an owner of Meadowlarks (great speaks BTW) you've obviously got some experience with this. 

Obviously Vandys are just great speakers that do the time/phase thing as well or better than anyone.  That said, time/phase coherence isn't an absolute necessity for imaging or depth of stage.  There's more than one way to skin a cat, as it were.  I'll throw in Joseph Audio and ProAc as some of the most holographic speakers I've heard.  And I'll also mention Nola with their open-backed mids and tweets, and a lesser-known brand Boenicke has some very interesting technology and rear-firing tweets.  I guess from that perspective, VonSchweikert deserves a mention too as does Usher, Verity, Giya, YG, Rockport -- and on it goes.  Best of luck in your search. 
avanti1960
1,480 posts
 
most good quality, relatively coherent speakers will give a very deep sound stage when properly positioned including distance from the wall behind them.  
I have heard everything from KEF LS50s to Harbeth M40.2 deliver an impressively deep soundstage when they have room to breathe behind them- e.g. as much as your room can offer up to five feet or so.  
In addition they need proper toe-in and positioning relative to each other. 
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