Tim, thanks for the input. I just picked up the .7 and I'm playing them now with my Bob Latino Dynaco ST-70 which has great current. I'm also using an Aretha tube preamp. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! AMAZING!!!!!!!!!! I'm am absolutely blown away! The amp drives them with ease like it's nothing! The sound is so tight, solid, warm, detailed and incredibly controlled. I'm speechless at how amazing this system sounds! Regards, ---angel |
Hello Angel,
Excellent! I'm glad you're digging it so much.
Wow, I had no idea you were using an all tube setup with a Bob Latino Dynaco ST-70 amp, KT88 or EL34? Stock tubes? It's amazing that 40 w/ch can drive the .7 so well. I'd love to hear your combo. Very cool!
Enjoy,
Tim
|
Tim,
Appreciate the kind words and suggestions on subs. Got a pair of REL T5i’s but haven’t set them up with .7’s just yet. Honestly I’m quite pleased even now with the bass on the Maggie’s but I have much to learn. Today I spoke to Wendell at Magnepan to commend them on their performance. Yes I’m running KT88’s on the ST-70 and Tung-Sol 6SL7 GT tubes on the Aretha. The Dynaco drives the .7’s really strong with ease in fact once I roll the volume just pass the 9 o’clock position it really sings. I did have it actually tested at 36 watts per channel but I think it has tons of current. It weighs a ton. I played Melody Gardot and dropped my jaw in disbelief! Her voice sounds super crisp and clean and the overall instruments sound very transparent and holographic like. My room acoustic are unusual because I don’t have any straight walls except for one wall with curtains as it’s an A frame house so all the walls are slanted. I did hear the .7 in the stores treated sound room with some $25,000 dollars worth of mono amps but for some reason I think the setup I have with my tubes actually sounded better. I realize it’s not a fair comparison with two different rooms but I can say I’m more than impressed with how these Maggie’s perform at home using my setup. Bass is very clean too. The thing I wasn’t sure of though is whether I can connect my REL’s to the 4ohm taps.
|
Hello rankaudio,
I'm glad you're so pleased with the tubes driving the Maggies but there's still quite a bit of bass on your sources that you're not hearing. Humans are capable of hearing bass tones down to as deep as 20Hz and we're unable to determine where bass sounds are coming from when they're at about 80 Hz or lower.
Because of these facts, almost all recorded music is summed to mono from about 80 Hz and lower while only extending down to 20 Hz. Only some hi-resolution recordings even record bass below 20 Hz, which is bass that cannot be heard but can be felt. Fortunately, there are very few musical instruments that are able to produce bass below 20 Hz (pipe organs are the only ones I'm aware of) and most mass market recordings filter out all frequencies below 20 Hz.
The Magnepan .7 speakers are rated to have bass output down to 50 Hz and the REL T5i subs are rated to have bass output down to 32 Hz. So, with the subs installed you'll extend the bass from 50 Hz down to 32 Hz, which you will likely perceive as significantly deeper bass response, bass impact and viscerally more realistic and enjoyable. With your current choice of subs and main speakers, however, I want you to be aware that you'll not be hearing any of the deep bass tones on your recordings from 20-32 Hz.
This omission can be significant in the realism perceived and the visceral bass impact heard and physically felt, the degree to which this will be missing is largely dependent on the type of music you are listening to. I find that the accurate reproduction of the deepest bass octave and bass dynamics results in my very realistic perception that the musicians are in my room or that I'm listening live in person at the recording venue. I listen mainly to a wide variety of rock, acoustic and jazz music.
Nevertheless, I believe your combination of midrange and treble frequencies being reproduced by tube electronics driving the .7speakers from 50 Hz on up and the bass frequencies being reproduced by the pair of solid state amps in the REL T5i subs driving their 8" woofers from 32 to somewhere between 50 and 60 Hz, is capable of being a high quality system provided the speakers and subs are positioned and configured properly.
My recommendation is to continue to operate the .7s full-range, position each REL sub sequentially using 'the crawl method' and then adjust the volume, crossover frequency and phase controls on the subs to attain optimum bass response and a seamless integration with the .7s in your room. Whether you perceive the bass as sufficiently deep, accurate, detailed, natural and realistic for very enjoyable listening experiences is a matter you will need to determine.
As I stated, I really enjoy the accurate reproduction of the lowest octave in my system. But this may not be as enjoyable or important to you. If it's not, your current system should prove very satisfying to you. If you prefer deeper, more impactful and realistic bass, I'd suggest utilizing a pair of larger subs with larger drivers and more powerful amps, the $3K Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA system, or even a custom 4-sub DBA with your subs of choice with 10" or larger drivers.
Best wishes and enjoy,
Tim
|
I also like deep bass and REL subs. Part of the decision becomes cost, as you could get a 3.7i for the price of a .7 and subs...there is no right answer |
I agree, cost is important and it's basically a matter of options and choices.
I think highly of REL subs in general, but my main concern for Angel/ rankaudio is whether a pair of REL T5i subs specifically are the best option for his system since they only have bass extension down to 32 Hz. My thought is a pair of subs with bass extension down closer to 20 Hz would be a more capable and enjoyable pairing with his high quality .7 speakers. There's a lot of old and newavailable recordings with musical content between 20-32 Hz that Angel simply wouldn't be even hearing.
It would be Angel's choice as to whether he wanted to use a pair of larger and more expensive REL subs or use another brand's pair of very good quality subs that would also be a more capable and enjoyable pairing with his .7 speakers, but cost considerably less.
I'd suggest a pair of SVS SB-1000 subs or comparable model HSU subs would provide high quality bass with deeper extension that may be an equally capable but more economical bass solution for his system. They'd be in the $1000-1,200/pair range and offer free 30-day in-home trial periods, so very low financial risk.
Tim
|
Noble -- Can I swing past your place and pick up a swarm array? Because clearly you must be a dealer or stockholder, as you have hijacked the majority of this thread to push DBA systems.
|
Since most models roll off the bass is there a NEED for a cross over with subs? I ask because I like bass heavy music and worried about wrecking these even though I have subs. |
It’s exciting to hear all the positive reviews about .7. Some questions as I’m considering a similar system:
1. Is LRS sonically different from .7? The form factor is more condo friendly in city apartments. But I’d like to get decent sound too.
2. Is the bass emaciated on these two smaller models in the MagnePan lineup? I’m no bass head and listen to a whole range of music including jazz and classical. But on 70s rock or some of the modern electronic stuff it helps to have a solid low end. I hear REL subs mentioned, but that’ll be way too much cabling and setup. I’d prefer to avoid that.
3. My source is a Mac Mini. Would a Schiitt saga + vidar be enough to drive both LRS and .7? Brystons mentioned earlier in the thread are way too pricey. A Hegel 190 is somewhere lower but still pricey. I hear Schiitt Vidar is a good match for Magnepans?
Many thanks. |
The LRS is a great choice for most rooms for two reasons. First, it has nearly all the best qualities of the bigger Maggies, and particular the magic midrange. It also has pretty decent bass for its size in a normal size room. With my RTA with pink noise the speaker is flat down to 80 Hz, but falls fairly quickly below that. If you are familiar with the Quad ESL-57, the LRS is essentially a Quad reincarnation tonally, but with MUCH better dynamics. Second, the speaker is "right sized’ for the room. The larger Maggies are too big for their own good, IMHO. The small ones (LRS / 0.7 / 1.7i) work MUCH better in the midrange in most normal size rooms. Imaging in particular is much improved over the big guys, which really need a large room to work geometrically. You end up sitting on top of them if the room is too small and that is not good.
Subwoofers - as Tim says, the Duke LeJuene / Earl Geddes Audio Kinesis 4-speaker SWARM is the best WOOFER system you can buy - period, for ANY room. That is because the assymetric distribution of four subwoofers around the room is the only way to defeat the room modes. (If you are not familiar with the system, read Dr. Robert Greene's review of the system in The Absolute Sound.) Room correction helps, but cannot correct for suck-out which plagues most listening rooms with one or two monopole woofers. That is true for any speaker - even the vaunted Magicos which are great but don’t work in anything short of the near field in a room typical of the Biltmore House.
Fortunately, there is a new DSP-enabled dipole subwoofer (the VPE Little Dipole Woofer - Model 1) coming out shortly which matches the radiation pattern of the small Maggies, AND solves the room mode problem via use of a true dipole radiation architecture. The recommendation is one LDW per Maggie with the back port radiating in phase and UNDER the bottom of the speaker standing up on MagnaRiser or Mye stands, and the driver radiating backwards out of phase. This provides a perfect match for the Maggie dipole pattern in the upper bass / lower midrange, and two of these woofers solve the room mode problem as well as the four-speaker Audio Kinesis SWARM does, but at half the cost. Stay tuned for more details soon.
|
Some have described their experiences with having difficulties integrating subwoofers with their Magnepan speakers. Well, based on my own personal experience, it's not so difficult to beautifully and seamlessly integrate a sub or a pair of subs with Magnepan speakers, not in the least. Everything, and I mean everything, depends on which sub you're trying to integrate, especially when it comes to Maggies. All to often, people make the same mistake, trying to integrate the wrong type of sub with Maggies. Subs that are too slow and do not manage to mimic the tone of the base panel of the Maggies very well at all. It is imperative that Maggies be mated with a proper sub and you will be absolutely astonished at the results. Try REL subwoofers. I run my .7's with a pair of REL subs. The RELs are not difficult to dial-in at all. And, they are the very best that I have heard in having the ability to seamlessly blend in with Magnepan speakers. You will be "Astonished" by REL/Maggie combo, just like I was when I auditioned them. The sound rendered by the Maggie/REL combo was nothing short of captivating. You will not be disappointed!!! |
