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MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

Reference Points only last as long as the tome it takes to discover the next reference point.

Anybody who thinks there is not a next reference point, in my view has lost the desire to discover new experiences with end sound being produced using audio equipment.

Additionally, if an individual has built a system that leans towards giving the Bass Frequency a larger slice of pie, in relation to coherence across the frequency range. Why ?, would it be suggested the individual is in need of a device to reduce the Bass Notes presence. Is not the individual entitled to produce he end sound that gives them the most satisfaction. 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,077 posts
 

Dear @theophile  : " We know irrefutably that someone is actually singing and someone is actually playing. Even when the sound transmits through a closed building. "

Totally right and the main issue belongs to the live MUSIC kind of transients response that's absolutely UNIQUE and we can't mimic in anyway.

From that unique transient response comes the MUSIC dynamic power that permits to listen and know for sure that the sound  coming ( as you posted ):

" There is a quality to a live in the flesh non-amplified voice or instrument. "

Any room system is far far far away of that unique transients response.

Main differences between any room/system and in our thread subject between cartridges belongs and starts to that transient response and its speed.

Mijostyn ( I named because I'm still waiting for.....) could have a different points of view why he thinks/likes his Lambda SL is a " hair " better than the MC Diamond, unfortunatelly he never disclosed in this thread what is his take.

 

Anyway, only an opinion but again I agree with you.

R.

 

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 

OK Raul, Here it is. I prefer very expensive moving coil and moving Iron cartridges, recent ones. There is not an antique cartridge I would care to audition. I do not collect cartridges, I use them up and move on. The best cartridges  sound surprisingly alike. The sound quality of any system is far more dependent on the speakers and room. Asking people what cartridge they prefer is colored by their own preferences and the quality of their system. 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,077 posts
 

Dear friends: Seems to me that we forgot of one live MUSIC main characteristic that is its natural continuous flow.

That characteristic can’t even in our system because we have no " continuity " in what the stylus pick-up under grooves ride due to those stylus " jumps " ( at microscopic level. ) during tracking.

Obviously that each cartridge has different abilites about and the " flow " of the MUSIC through any of those cartridges has different quality levels.

Btw, @mijostyn this and all the other live MUSIC characteristics are what permits any one of us to evaluate/compare cartridges in between to have each one of us answer or answers to the questions of this thread. Your " reference " on antique and today cartridge models is useless and futile ( for say the least ) because things are that all those MUSIC characteristics function/are working with any cartridge: new or vintage, this is not the matters of the OP and through your 27 posts you touched at least 3 times ( ? ? ? ).

Anyway, what all of you think about that MUSIC flow continuity that I see as a characteristic.

 

R.

westcoastaudiophile
309 posts
 

@rauliruegas "live MUSIC main characteristic that is its natural continuous flow” thanks Raul for `very fundamental question!

some technical points to watch to achieve it:

1) very important for realistic sound is a phase information of different tones (freq.), which is “distorted” by speaker design details, diff-freq.-speakers misalignment to the listening point), cartridge design (cantilever, diamond, coils inductance, damper). Measuring phase/group delay of total system to the listener ears would be ideal test, but it is not available yet.

-designing system with limited (ideally none) number of feedback loops and (phase/level) distorting sound by too-many filters in a system, incl. not really needed damping, limiting bandwidth etc. I found as excellent 2 stage tube amp with almost no fb-loop sounds better from “live music alike side”, despite lower power and bit higher single tone distortion.

-MC cartridges are more precise and sound good, IF interconnect btw cartridge terminals and phono-pre/SUT is excellent, low resistance / inductance etc., which is hard to achieve (few ohms in the arm cable and old contacts kill it). For aged arms/cables I prefer excellent MM carts, like AT-ML180 / 170, sounding naturally and requiring lower track force (I use 1gf).

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