MM cart on a fr24 arm

Anybody ?

I saw in another forum someone used a Denon DL-103 MC Cart with the fidelity research fr24 tonearm.

Meroci
I don't often answer threads but given the responses (or lack of) to your thread, I figured I'd offer a bit of advice. After following one of thee LONGEST threads regarding MM cartridges vs. the perceived superiority of MC cartridges (Who needs a MM cartridge type when we have MC?)
I've read this rather lengthy post of VERY good to great offerings still available and must share with you my findings. Three very good MM cartridges. The first being Nagaoka MP-500 an awesome cart for the $$ ..secondly being the Ortofon M-20 FL (fine line stylus) my absolute FAVORITE and the Azden YZ-50
To make a long story short I want to recommend the Ortofon M20 FL, without going into much detail , it is a GREAT buy you won't miss anything.IN fact if you do the minor amount of leg work to locate one of these fine carts (hint eBay). You will NEVER second guess your decision .
In fact if you do take my advice and purchase it and for any reason and do not like it, I will buy the cartridge from you ,NO questions asked, as I need to stock up. This says nothing about the quality of the Nagaoka MP-500 which A'gon member J*Loveys compared the Nagaoka quite favorably to his mega $$$$ Allaerts MC2 Finish cart , but that's a whole other story. As a point of reference all this cartridge is at home in all of my tone arms Origin Live Silver,SME 3009 and exquisitley in my Graham Phantom II.
Also member DougDeacon upon visiting preferred the Ortofon M-20 to the Nagaoka 500
Feel free to DM me with any further questions.
braab92@aol.com

Braab8

Thanks for those excellent recs.
I'll go hunting some mm carts now...

Icorem,
There are three things you should consider. One is the effective mass of the FR24 and compatibility with a particular cart. The second is the phono stage especially resistance and capacitance load. Third is overall type sound desired.

I'm not familiar with the FR24, but some of the FR arms are high mass and the 24 looks similar to the 64 which is heavy. While some people have good results with a med/high compliance cart with a heavy arm, it's not recommended.

MM carts are harder than MC's to load properly. I really like the M20FL Super, but I had best results in med/light arms and loading with either high capacitance (400 - 500pF/47K) or 325pF/53K. Otherwise it can sound distant.
The cart sounds sluggish to me in an arm with mass of approx. 17g. My results suggest arm mass of 7 to 12g or so to be better.

MM's with lower compliance (w/high mass) are some of the Nagaoka, AT7V, and AT95/Clearaudio. The Nagaoka MP-200 is in your price range. The 200 has a boron cantilever and cu of approx. 16. The Nagaoka carts have a full bodied sound.

The AT7V has similar compliance and is usually perceived as more neutral sounding than some other AT MMs. It will be best with < 200pF. There's a lot of love out there for the MP200 and 7V, which is a bargain at < $200.

The AT95 and variants, and all the Clearaudio MMs have a cu of 15. You can get an AT95 with a Jico shibata for < $150, or use that stylus in any Clearaudio MM by cutting away the excess plastic stylus holder.

I was reluctant to recommend anything without knowing the specifics of the arm. If it is a high mass arm you might want to consider something like a Dynevector 10X-5, although I'm not recommending it. My experience with a 10X-4 was not good, but some people seem to like the 10X-5.

Regards,

Fleib

Indeed the fr-24 is on the border of a high mass arm with 17g.
I will do some research on the names you mentioned.
Thanks a lot.

Fleib
by the way you mention the Nagaoka mp-200 as one to consider. When looking at its specs I see 2 compliance numbers - dynamic compliance at 7.2 and static compliance at 20. Which number to consider as the 20 seems like taking it out of consideration with a 17g tonearm.

Icorem,
Dynamic compliance (cu) is the one to consider with arm matching. Standard calculations are with cu measured at 10Hz. Many Japanese companies measure at 100Hz so these must be converted. A 100Hz cu of 6.5 (AT95) = 15cu at 10Hz. A 100Hz cu of 10 (150MLX) = 18cu.
Conversion isn't straightforward. 100Hz cu is actually a measure of tracking ability at 100Hz, not compliance. The above figures have been verified for specific carts. VTF usually coincides with compliance. In this case recommended VTF of 1.7 to 2.25g should match up nicely.

This is not written in stone and results might vary. A high compliance cart on a heavy arm will have resonant frequency below the recommended range of 8 to 12Hz which makes it more susceptible to low frequency mechanical and acoustic feedback, woofer pumping and record warp problems. This is alleviated somewhat by a stable setup, high quality arm bearings, and arm damping. Either the MP200 or the AT7V should work out nicely.

Capacitance load is your preamp capacitance + cables + internal arm wire. If your phono is 100pF you should be okay with an AT and most supplied wires - they average around 100pF. If you have an audiofool tonearm cable, who knows? Nagaoka actually recommends 100pF load, but I suspect this is for a preamp setting.
The AT has a balanced sound and I think has more detail than the MP200. Even though the 200 has a boron cantilever the tip is .4 x .7. The 7V is sharper, nude .2 x .7 w/tapered aluminum cantilever. My experience with Nagaoka is limited, but I know the AT is a excellent cart, reminiscent of a Signet TK5Ea. That's what I recommend.
Regards,

Had the time to research a little bit on all your recs.
I'm not a vintage cart guy so i'll probably try to go with a new cart.
What seems to work with the high mass FR24 arm is either
Nagaoka mp200
Audio Technica AT7v

what do you prefer for a warm and dynamic but detailed sound ?
How the Clearaudio performer ebony fits into the competition ?Thanks