My experience adding subwoofers to 2 channel

Hello clio09,

      I've read about your Acoustat 2+2 electrostatic speakers mainly in the Stereophile review attached below but have never heard them myself. Based on this and their specs I've come to believe we're both looking for similar improvements in our system's bass response, namely a little more deep bass extension and improved deeper bass dynamics and impact.
    Your Acoustat 2+2 electrostatic panels have a bass extension limit of 28 Hz and my Magnepan 2.7QR planar-magnetic panels have a bass extension limit of 35 Hz. Fairly similar specs that would indicate they both would benefit from a sub system that would provide a little more deep bass extension down to the audible limit of 20 Hz and improved deep bass dynamics and impact.  
    If this is the case, which I know it exactly describes the deep bass I thought was missing in my system, then what is required is a supplemental bass system that provides bass extension down to 20 Hz, has the reserve power to provide life-like bass dynamics and impact that are felt as well as heard along with the bass not being perceived as disconnected, slow and lagging behind the sound from the main speakers.  
     I've found this last quality of providing bass that is detailed, smooth, dynamic and fast enough to blend seamlessly with our detailed, smooth and fast panel speakers is the most difficult but one of the best things a DBA system does.  It seems like you're now discovering that a custom bass line array can also seamlessly integrate as well or even better than a DBA.  Very interesting to know and I'd like to learn more.
     Btw, I am using that Dayton class AB kilowatt amp for my swarm.  I feel like you're setting me up for something, but I'll bite anyways and ask.  Why should I not use it?


Thanks,
  Tim 


https://www.stereophile.com/content/acoustat-22-loudspeaker

Rix, it is impossible to isolate a driver putting out low bass. The pressure wave itself is what makes the whole house vibrate, not the woofers connection to the house.
clio you want to handle Tim. I'm tired of talking to myself.
millercarbon you just gave some of the worlds finest speaker designers the middle finger. I think you should read acoustics for dummies before you start spouting off about what is or is not possible.

@noble100, my speakers are the Model 2, mijostyn has the 2+2. I doubt my speakers go down to 28 Hz, but regardless I am cutting them off at 100 Hz. IIRC I think Duke recommends running the mains full range and set the frequency on the Swarm accordingly. If I am wrong about that I apologize to him in advance. I could run my system that way, but I prefer to follow Roger's method and treat the panels as if they were designed to only go down to 100 Hz.

As for your amp, measure it. That will tell you what you need to know.

Hello khiak,

    To see my pm to you do this:

Scroll up to your last post dated 5/29/19.

Click on the red square icon with the "K" in the middle.

Click on the "Marketplace Feedback" tab.

Click on the blue thought bubble icon.

Click on the message from noble100.

Attach your video clip and click 'send' or 'submit'.


    If you can't do this for any reason, just post again and I'll reply with my suggestion.


Tim

clio09:
"@noble100, my speakers are the Model 2, mijostyn has the 2+2. I doubt my speakers go down to 28 Hz, but regardless I am cutting them off at 100 Hz. IIRC I think Duke recommends running the mains full range and set the frequency on the Swarm accordingly. If I am wrong about that I apologize to him in advance. I could run my system that way, but I prefer to follow Roger's method and treat the panels as if they were designed to only go down to 100 Hz.

As for your amp, measure it. That will tell you what you need to know."

Hello clio09,
     My mistake.  Your Acoustat model two's specs state they go down to 30 Hz, which means our speakers are even more similar in their low frequency limits than I originally thought, 28 Hz for yours and 35 Hz for mine.  So, I believe everything I stated in my last post still applies.
     I know the xover frequency and volume controls and settings are the key adjustments that need to be set properly for my DBA system subs to blend seamlessly with my main speakers.  I do use Duke's recommendation of running my mains full range and usually set the xover frequency on the Swarm/Debra accordingly, which in my room and with my speakers seems to be about 45 Hz.
     I just tried raising my xover to 100 Hz on my system as a test.   The most noticeable effect this had was to change my system's normally 3D soundstage imaging into a 2D soundstage image.  It flattened out the soundstage similar to the difference between looking at a real life live scene and a video of it.  It was much less realistic and enjoyable.  
     I think I know the cause and effect of this change in perception but want to think about it a bit more thoroughly before explaining it in words.
     In my opinion, the ability of a high quality audio system to create a solid and stable three dimensional soundstage illusion in our rooms through a pair of properly positioned speakers, with the assistance of our brains and a well engineered recording, is one of the most enjoyable experiences to strive for in this hobby.  
     I've discovered that my 4-sub DBA system, by adding the accurate reproduction of the lowest audible bass frequencies it was lacking from about 20-35Hz, significantly enhances this 3D soundstage illusion by causing it to sound even more life-like and palpable. The increased bass detail,the increased bass dynamics and impact that can be felt as well as heard along with this added bass output seamlessly blending with the quality of the rest of the audio spectrum being reproduced by my main speakers also contributes to this realistic portrayal.
     As I've stated, I'm extremely satisfied with my DBA system's performance and my wife's very pleased with its inconspicuous presence in our living room.  I'm not claiming a 4-sub DBA system is superior to a line array bass system in bass performance but it certainly is when judged in the living room inconspicuousness and swimsuit competition stages of the sub system contest.

Tim