My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

WC,

Tidal vs QOBUZ - you bet, would love to see how your system can distinguish the differences.

Dave

Jay,

I like the 2:42 guitar/drum/HF percussion recording you played 5/23 at 9:16 AM.  Nice clear upfront sound.  I hope you use this for your speaker A/B between S7 and Focal.

@pokey77 

Thank you so much for your comment above. Much appreciated,!

@thezaks 

I think we all respect Jay's path. But I also think it would be good if others shared their opinion on the use of this thread; Jay of course is the one in charge, so whether he changes or stays the course is up to him. And I stand with those that are wishing him continued and increasing success. He works hard and it is apparent, I like go-getters like Jay. We need more like him in this world, realizing that success is not given but earned.

@pokey77 

I totally agree with you about the thread - I hope it continues to have value.  I also agree with kren0006 - respecting WC's path and wishing him the best of success.  

Dave

Best mid-bass, deep bass, etc - you name it (in my room)

If anyone came into my room and heard the impact of this speaker, I’d have to shut your jaw. Could this be my favorite Magico? Time will answer this question, but make no mistake this speaker needs POWER. This leads me to my next point: why do manufacturers build big amps with huge power? Well, this speaker answers that question.

It should go without saying that being able to afford this speaker doesn't mean you are good to go. Make sure you have your ducks in a row when it comes to your electronics. 

If you expect to climb mountain Everest wearing flip flops, sweat pants and a sweat shirt because you don't want to spend the money in the proper gear to suit up, you should stay away from the S7. 

This is gonna sound really dumb and unconvincing but I was actually gonna predict a Magico. Over weekend WC said he wouldn’t be revealing til late in week so I thought I had some time. Oh well, I always support earlier reveals.

I’ll say that the one thing that was giving me pause was the claim of best bass. Didn’t think a cheaper but still non ported Magico would beat the M models, let alone some of the others he’s had.

I am definitely much more of a forum person than YT, but respect WC’s chosen path and wish him success

Jay,

It would be helpful to do a video of the same song on both speakers using whatever electronics you want.  Ideally, use the same ancillary components so we are doing a fair comparison of speakers, but the speaker differences will be greater than the electronics differences.  I think I like the new S7, but the music has been unfamiliar so I have no opinion so far.  In general, bass porting increases the quantity and extension of bass, but it is less accurate than sealed boxes.  The S7 needs 3 drivers to get the bass quantity of the 2 drivers with porting in the Focal, but it makes sense that accuracy of bass is better in the S7.

I remember your S5 from a few years ago.  You didn't like it because its sound field was too small for you, but I liked its clarity or tonal balance better than the M3 and M6.  I could be wrong, because it was all an apples/oranges comparison over a long time.

Great presentation on that video. Well clipped and summarized. 

Sounds like a speaker capable of shining especially w great supporting cast.

Best bass to date.  Wow.  That says a lot given what has come before it.

Wonder how much the 3060 and the Extreme etc factor into the evolution.

I’m waiting for those who hide in the bushes to come out and begin to dismantle Mágico 😂

Only kidding... I am however, waiting to hear from you all about the speaker I unveiled today. 

@thezaks 

OK, got it. I appreciate the clarity, no pun intended.

I hope that the value of this thread is not dwindling. I see it as the foundation of Jay's Audio Lab and it is a great place to discuss the videos he makes, hope you hear/read this Jay @jays_audio_lab.

BTW, I think this thread ebbs and flows. Seems sometimes there's just a post or two a day, then all of a sudden, there's many posts, often brought on by the videos over on YT that stimulate the conversation.

@pokey77 

Yes, I knew and have used that - thanks though.  I wasn't trying to get kren0006's attention in that moment, just pointing out to WC that folks might be dropping off due to his comments about the value of this thread going forward.

Dave

@thezaks 

If you want to get someone's attention, you can post their user name using this format @kren0006, and they will get a notification and they can then choose to respond or not to. Works good when you quote someone too. I apologize if you already knew this.

BTW, @jays_audio_lab, great Meet My New Speaker! video.

Not idea. I suppose people are crazy busy 

WC,

Where did kren0006 and his fairly accurate guessing of equipment go?   You've been indicating that you will be more about YT and less about this thread, so maybe he decided to drop off?  

"Apparently nobody else cared  gave theirs on here."   Maybe folks are dropping off from this thread, based upon what you've been saying.  Not sure.  

Dave

Due to popular demand, find out today what speaker entered in my lab

530pm ET

Sounds great on my I-Mac.  I can only imagine how great they sound in real life!

!!!!!!!

Agreed. Looking fwd to the reveal 

Holy hand grenades Batman, it’s not just the footers that are in place…. It’s the whole enchilada!  POW!  Knocked me right out of my socks!!!

Really sounds great…

Comments will flow after the reveal Lol!

klh007 and jafant,

Yes, the 4th movement of Peer Gynt Suite 1 is the Mountain King.  For harmonic beauty, listen to the 1st and 2nd movements.

After you're done impressing your friends with sonic spectaculars, turn to chamber music.  Search YT for Grieg violin/piano sonata, op 45, recording by Fritz Kreisler, violinist and Rachmaninoff, pianist.  It is remarkable how much passion/intensity/beauty there is in this 1928 recording.  (Sorry it is not posting here--fault of YT).  In particular, listen at 10:07, 17:28, 21:25 for the utmost in tonal beauty from Kreisler, one of the very top violinists who ever lived.

Next best is the 1949 recording of Leonid Kogan.  But the recordings of modern violinists are mediocre--they have lost the art of romanticism, so who cares about the superior audio quality.

Thank you for the feedback back.  Apparently nobody else cared  gave theirs on here. Here's mine so far:

1. Eye ball rattling tight bass 
2. Football field sized soundstage
3. Electrostatic-like definition
4. HARD AS HELL TO DRIVE 
5. Does not tolerate cheap electronics
6. Not "plug and play" like focal Maestro Utopia EVO

Folks

What's your initial impression?

Hi @jays_audio_lab ,

I must say I've been following your YT channel since the beginning, listening to all your changes through my main living room 2 channel only w/TV rig. Thank you for sharing your journey via this thread & your channel, so educational! This is the very 1st time I heard something really special come through,  (takes 1, 2 &3), the emotion, artistry, musicality of the performances and coherence of all your gear in front is now coming through! This is definitely next level up. I found myself moving my head, body & feet to the music and replaying those videos more than once.. Such a superb music making rig! Can't wait to find out what your new speakers are, I think this is the best yet that music has come through from your channel.. Including when you used your iphone to record lol.

WE ARE LIVE!

Folks: 

Today I have a special guest in my room and we plan to do a Livestream in the afternoon. We are thinking somewhere between 2-4pm ET. Stay tuned for details. This will be a great opportunity to ask questions! 

viber6

Thank you for the follow up.  I will check out selections on YouTube.

Happy Listening!

@viber6, Is the Grieg Peer Gynt Suite no. 1, 4th track also known as In the Hall of the Mountain King? I have the Berlin and San Diego versions.

Jay,

That Grieg Peer Gynt Suite no. 1, 4th track is full tilt dynamics in the last minute, with a big wallop at the end.  At the beginning, keep the volume low, otherwise you will blow out your woofer again.  A piece like this has MUCH more dynamic range than you are used to.  A proper level is 30 dB in the beginning, rising to sustained 90-100 dB in the last minute, with maybe 120 dB peak at the very end.

jafant,

There are so many recordings of the Grieg Piano Concerto, because everyone loves to perform it.  Just listen on YT which is good enough to make a selection based on sound and performance.  If you like more subtle Grieg, I love The Last Spring, Holberg Suite, the 3 violin/piano sonatas, especially the popular no.3, op. 45.  The string quartet is big scale romantic.  My favorite recording of that is by the Guarneri Quartet from 1965.  The sound is too mellow RCA, but the performance is  of utmost beauty.

My pain points with  the new speaker

Guys, all the music i play is found on my tidal playlist which I’ve shared with you all in the past. Please, save this playlist and refer to this when you are trying to figure out what song is playing.

Search for "Jay’s Audio Lab" on tidal to locate my playlist

edia objectedia object widget

viber6

Which CD or SACD pressing for Grieg Piano Concerto ? Label? Catalog number ?

Happy Listening!

jays_audio_lab

what Grieg piece did you guys play?  

Happy Listening!

Jay,

I'm glad you met this older gentleman who introduced you to the music of Grieg.  Which piece did he play?  Grieg is a very popular classical composer, although his music is at the height of the romantic, rather than classical period.  His melodies speak to the heart, and they are not complicated or hard to grasp.  I recommend the Piano Concerto, which starts with a highly dynamic piano flourish from high to low notes, and back again and again.  The 2nd movement is a soft string mood piece.  The whole piece has lots of macro and micro dynamics, and is great for system testing. 

Another great piece is the Peer Gynt suite no. 1.  Another exciting piece with every sonic treat you could want.

The advantage of classical music recordings is that most of them are natural, without any processing, except for some mixing of spot mikes on certain instruments, for balance and intelligent emphasis only.  The intent is to have the recording reflect the experience in the concert hall.  You will want to have the most detailed electronics like Boulder bring out all the beauty in the details.  There will be nothing unpleasant so there is no need for euphonic electronics to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Even the cheaper Boulder components are dedicated to neutrality, so the $20 something grand 1160 will bring out more detail than the euphonic more expensive stuff from Constellation, D'ag, etc.  

Folks

What's your initial impression?

@zprr 

"But I appreciate Jay keeping an eye on this thread still and posting." I agree. This is the anchor/foundation for Jay and is a great place for discussion on all things two channel. This thread is not just a bunch of videos, it is the story book of Jays Audio Lab.

Man, I think a few folks have already mentioned - this is a primarily a two channel thread for over 5 year now going on 6. Many folks Ron17 and Zaks to name 2 have been really helpful already.

I absolutely wish you the best on your multi channel journey, but meanwhile Jay is pushing the envelope and expanding his sphere of influence in two channel, system setup and of course his youtube presence. It seems like your inquiry would be best suited for a private consult with Jay should he accept at this point. Or perhaps start new multi channel inquiry on Agon to tap the full knowledge base on this forum that may not follow this particular thread.

We still have some momentum here, albeit waning. We are losing regular contributors seemingly left and right. All the while, there is so much excitement, agitation and change happening whether on this forum, wbf, axpona, munich or future aspiring youtubers, all of which jay is talking about and could tilt the trajectory of future hi-end audio. Let’s keep the conversation going here on Jay’s journey and I still hold out the hope that this long thread doesn’t fizzle out and dry up, but I understand that could be its ultimate future. Ha, in denial. But I appreciate Jay keeping an eye on this thread still and posting. Especially as Mikey can opine for himself on other forums like WBF, whereas Jay cannot, for no reason that has ever been publicly articulated. Forums still matter in our sliver of universe.

@abizzle55 I only know of two multi-channel amps that can mute channels. The California Audio Labs design, a 20 year old amp, still is the most advanced one I have used.. It had bias tracking before bias tracking transistors existed. It had ability the ability to control with RS232 or command from the processor when it switched from class A to Class A/B. 

One of the reasons I bought the Krell was because of the webpage and the options to mute the channels. It also can notify Krell and you if there are malfunctions with the amplifier. I was tried of "dumb" amplifiers. 

I find that when you run all of the channels the sound is sort of diffuse and lacks the clarity of a two channel amp. You can still hear the sound quality of the amplifier but it just can not match the clarity and detail of a two channel amp. With the Chorus, when I mute the channels, all of the diffuse sound goes away.  I am guessing the extra channels add noise. I believe most multichannel amps measure worse with all of the channels running at same time.

I would assume this is true of the Chorus 7200, that you can get better stereo with muted channels, but I do not have any first hand experience with the amp. They may be wired the same as the 5200 or may not be. With the Chorus 5200 there are I think two transforms. It may be wired so that with the channels are muted, the stereo channels are on one transformer and the other three channels are on the other transformer. That's the way the California Audio Labs was wired. With the Chorus 7200, you may have three channel on one transformer and four on the other transformer. I do not know but if that is the case,  you would always have three channels on a single transformer. You might not get the same effect as the Chorus 5200 if it has only two channels on one transformer with the others muted.

Yes, I agree. If Wilson doesn't sound that good, no one would bring those pairs of old-fashioned-looking robots to their home lol. It might be worth discussing the pricing strategy of the loudspeakers companies. What are the differences between a $10000, $30000, $50000, and $100000 pair of speakers? The same goes for the amps, preamps, and DACs. Just some interesting topics people may be interested in.

@logydoghan 

I have not compared them directly so I can only go by memory. Anyone who is dismissing Focal Maestros for Wilson Alexia is probably not in their right mind. 

You all know I like Wilson, but Focal Maestro EVO has completely blown me away on all counts: Clarity, detail, huge soundstage, deep bass and looks. 

My wife continues to say that FOCAL is the most gorgeous speaker I have had in here (she is a graphic designer) and actually 3 of her friends echoed the same thing. Europeans just know how to make things pretty and America is so far behind that it is not even funny. 

@bulldogger 

Thanks for that input. 🙂

That's really interesting. I've read of amps distributing power to the channels on a when needed basis, but to turn off the channels all together is a great function. Wonder if their are any other multichannel amps that have this function?

This also means I have the option to go with either the Krell 5200 or the 7200, knowing that function is available. Whichever turns up.

I was hoping with advancement in technology would close the gap between multichannel and stereo amps.

Can you explain a bit what the differences in sound is when you run all channels vs shutting down and running only stereo?

Also, as Krell is an American brand, it is very difficult for me to get hold of a used example here in the UK. I wouldn't mind ordering from the states, but most of the amps are running on 120v whilst we run on 220-240v.

That's a good question, are there any multichannel amps that run a universal voltage (110-240v)? Could be a great addition to this forums list of amps.

Hi @jays_audio_lab , have you compared your Focal Maestro with the Wilson Alexx (or Alexia 2) already? I remember that you mentioned you would cover this comparison in a future thread/video. Thanks!

@abizzle55  The Krell amps are good. I have a Chorus 5200 XD. and the 300 Duo XD. The new Krell amps have an ethernet connection. I have used this to mute all but two channels of the Chorus 5200 XD. It makes it sound like a stereo amp. It's cleaner with the other channels muted for stereo. I have used my Iphone to access the webpage of the amp where you can turn the amp on and mute the channels. Multi-channel amps don't sound as good as stereo amps. The Krell and another amp I owned a California Audio Labs MCA 2500 are the only two amps that I know of that can do this. Both sound like stereo amps with the other channels muted. I have not tried this with the Chorus 7200.

I am live!