My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

😂... That comment was funny 

Viber,

just to clear up any confusion, I am sure that you meant to say that you heard a soft 37Hz note , not 37db note.

Of course db is decibels. The speakers are listed to go down to 40Hz. I am not sure if that is 3db down or 6 db down at that frequency , Probably -6. He does not say

Most speaker manufacturers list their lowest freq response at either -3 or -6 db.

Sounds like you have your first taker faxer. Let's see a head to head of the GTA versus Vibers 20 year old cheapie that Viber says is better

I think this can be done via YouTube...Viber isn't far from GT audio so he could hire movers to transport the speakers to Steve's house maybe? Then record and upload to YouTube 

Viber is probably the only person who’s heard both LOL. I’m gonna guess Viber is wrong again but let’s hear the shootout

edit: nah, on second thought let's not. I'd be a hypocrite if calling for that now since neither in WC room. But it is hilarious that Viber, who is the biggest GTA supporter here, thinks his old speakers are better. But that's Viber I guess 

We have been asked by several people and Jay had asked me to comment on the frequency response of the speakers. First off regardless of what type of speakers you buy - you should run pink noise through them at. 86 db and use an app called Audio Tools. You open the app and choose the FFT screen and you will pull up a frequency response graph that will measure the frequency response of the speakers. Choose 1/6 octave on the lower left of the screen and on The lower right of the screen you will choose average for measuring. There is a reset button so I would suggest hitting that once or twice to confirm check the reading.

I do not want to be accused of posting my own frequency response curve for the speakers. We have created a GT audio works owners group (see below link)and you can visit it and scroll down and see that one of our customers actually measured the speakers in their room. As a sidenote we use a little bit more absorption behind the speakers than this customer in order to bring down the 1 to 2 kHz hurtsas a sidenote we use a little bit more absorption behind the speakers than this customer in order to bring down the 1 to 2 kHz region. We dial the speakers in following the Munson curve which according to the laws of psychoacoustics are the most pleasing to the human ear. Rather than using a crossover which we have indicated many times causes all types of loss of transparency and inefficiency to the amplifier the speakers are designed to obtain this desired frequency response without a crossover as they are mechanically tuned. This process is very detailed and is a topic for another discussion on another day.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/227154372353090/permalink/388148392920353/

Switching gears,

Today you get to see part one of my interview of KRELL's current COO: Walter Schofield. He reached out the me because he saw i rated KRELL amplifiers as a low tier amplifier. 

You don't want to miss it!

YES!  Please switch gears and get us talking about stuff that has actually been in the room.  When are you going to reveal the monos.  It's been months dude!!

grey9hound,

Yes, you're right.  My bad typo error.  I meant 37 Hz.  As a musician, I have perfect pitch, and heard a low D note which is 37 Hz.  It was very soft in level.  Specs about the 6 dB down point on bass are not as important as resolution.  Amplitude frequency response is less important than resolution.  High resolution of any speaker compensates for less amplitude.

kren0006,

Why do you question what I say I hear from my speaker vs GTA or any other speaker?  Your implications that I am near deaf and have poor taste in what I value shows a complete lack of respect for my competence.  You say that your responses to me are nothing personal, but your remarks indicate otherwise.

You have not heard either my speakers or GTA in person.  You disparage my EQ and zip cord without ever hearing them.  That is the cardinal sin of closed mindedness around here.  Why don't you emulate Jay's increasing open mindedness and respect for others' input?

Only because you have extremely fringe audio preferences as you constantly tell us. You’re right, I haven’t heard those two speakers in person, which is why I wouldn’t comment on how they sound. But if you’re asking me whether a current $60k speaker should be able to beat a 20 year old speaker that probably cost a fraction of what the current GTA speaker costs, then yes, I think the GTA should be able to win. But I will take your word for it that your old speakers are better than the GTA, if you insist (as long as we please stop talking about them).

But the point is time to move on and concentrate on what WC has in his room, which is neither your speakers nor GTA, and he never will according to WC.

I am pretty interested in the Joseph Audio that WC says he is interested in acquiring and would love to bring them into his room. Would be very interested in WC’s take on how the Pearl’s compare to the Sasha DAWs, as either could be my next speaker, potentially.

Video is now live !

Steve, thanks for your best wishes for the survival of my speakers.

Jay, my delicate speakers and wire connections won't survive transport to Steve's home.  No need for me to take risks.  When you visit Steve for an audition of his GTA, you are welcome to visit me and hear my system.  I'll pick you up at the airport, travel to my place, then to Steve's.

New things aren't necessarily better than old things.  Old school tube electronics do some things better (I have heard these things) than new SS.  Despite GaN specs and theory, the Merrill GaN I heard was overly warm, not for me.  Ben Peters, the designer of my Audiostatic 240, did better with that 1980 model than his later designs.  Newer (than Audiostatic) Martin Logan and SoundLab electrostatics are inferior implementations of the electostatic principle.  The issue is not new-ness, but whether the designer understands basic principles of time alignment and radiation patterns.

Most new violins from today's top craftsmen sound like garbage compared to 50 year old instruments.  Many 300 year old instruments like Stradivarius are still considered the gold standard, verified by my experience.  Some of them have had lots of repairs and have aged, but the top violinists of today seek these and other old master violins for their tonal beauty and even power (surprise).

Kren0006,

Again you are a victim of the myth that a $60K speaker beats a much cheaper one. Even at the show, Jay found the $37K Joseph Audio speaker to be his top choice over several very expensive systems he heard. No, it wasn’t because the expensive EMM electronics were superior to the Pass in the GTA room. If the Joseph is so great, it would still sound excellent on Pass or even cheaper stuff.

And Jay found the Alta $10K speaker excellent. From the AGD video, I liked the Oceanway 2-way speaker.

The bottom line is that my speaker/tweeter combo has better resolution and clarity than any current production speaker available. I am honest to admit its limitations in bass extension and macro-dynamic output, where the GTA is far superior. Same goes for my speaker without the added tweeter. This rare used speaker goes for a whopping sum of $500.

Stay in the love and joy......remember your essence. Be happy and at peace with yourself and others.

(whattup ricevs........it's Friday!)

WC,

I liked Part 1 with Walter, and looking forward to Part 2.    I have a Krell multichannel XD amp for my home theater, and I really like it.  Best multi-channel amp I have owned, and I've owned many (including a custom upgraded Odeon).  Took a while for the Krell to break in, but it sounds great.  Hope you get one to try - it might prove to be a decent value.

Dave

Nice interview Jay.  I loved my FPB 300...would love to see Krell competing with the top level amps again.

Thank you Ron 

Every second we choose love or ego......every second. Love serves everyone. Ego serves survival of the body. We need to not step in front of a bus.....so a solid sense of self protection is necessary while in a body. However, the addiction to being a separate superior or inferior person (judging) does not bring happiness to anyone. If you are not in service to others with what you think, feel, say and do.....then you are serving your ego.

When you have REAL self esteem.....then you do not need to brag or tell everyone you are an expert. You know....that you really know nothing. Also the "I am no good" game is the same just the yin version. We are magnificent beyond belief.....but we don’t need to beat our chest to prove it. The sun radiates its light and warmth to us......for free. It does need our attention or Love to feel good about itself. It is goodness itself. When you live with the Sun in your heart, then you radiate it to all.....forever. We are that big....we are bigger. We care about everyone.

There is very little shared on this thread that really helps people. The number of audio products not reviewed here is a gazillion times more than what is reviewed. And what is reviewed cannot be bought by most people. So, who is getting served? What this thread is......is entertainment. Maybe a few people pick up a tip here and there if they are shopping in this price range. There is nothing wrong with entertainment. It can be fun. The best entertainment is the natural joy of the heart and soul. It is called following your HIGHEST excitment....or Bliss.

If you are always stating the same thing over and over again and no one wants to hear it or believe it or cares about it.....then you are pissing in the wind. No one is being served.

I have three reasons for posting:

1.....most importantly... is to let everyone know how incredible and amazing they are....to acknowledge people for their eternal beauty and sweetness. I still have work to do on being more sweet. I am sucking divine mothers tit right now always becoming more juicy and sweet.

2. ....to let people know they have a choice....between soul and ego.....so pointing out how the ego works and calling people on selfish behavior is part of being of service.....we are all mirrors for each other. We all lift each other up with praise and acknowledgment......but also let each other know when our zipper is down. I will do better in acknowledgment, I will.

3. To help people get better sound from their stereo system.....and tell them the good news that seriously great sound can be gotten for way less money than what is commonly known. Really great sound and music can transport you directly to heaven.......you all know that......we deserve good sound.

What are your motives for being here and posting? Take a look at your desires? Are they bringing you happiness? What is your highest Excitement? Mohammad Ali said......."I gained the world but did not get satisfaction......I got this disease to know that I am not number one....but that God is." God is Love.....Love is #1. We are all #1. There is nothing to prove.....Just be....be the love....be the joy. Peace.

What a great post! thanks ricevs

By the way i like The OP honesty...

It is the only reason i read his thread and bother with him...

He is a more interesting soul than any of the products he spoke about could ever be anyway...

Anyway i dont need any of them... 😊 Even if i could afford them...

But we all need a great soul....

It is a great thread....

@ricevs

So you’ve been pretty vocal about this thread with regards to it not being helpful to others. That said, don’t you think people have a choice to read or not read the thread? Nobody is being held hostage here. People don’t have to read anything including you but it seems that you are STILL reading it. I think we are all grown ups here and nobody here needs their life spared. This is entertaining for some and informational for others and those who find it to be neither are not reading it or following it.

Viber gets mauled for imposing his views over and over, but you are starting to be quite repetitive... Careful... Grab a mirror before you criticize Viber next time. 

I think it's time to clean house again.

With several people dominating this thread, I'd agree, time to clean house.

ricevs,

I enjoyed your last post.  I have a little different interpretation of our motives.  You and I are passionate about our long experiences and imparting this to anyone willing to listen.  But it is less motivated about bragging, than being excited to help others by sharing our experience.  Some people think of ego as that feeling of superiority to others in various ways, but a healthier view of ego is the satisfaction when someone recognizes what you say has merit and may enhance their life.  We are similar in the fact that we don't force others to throw away their components, but merely mention other possibilities.  We may be repetitive, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing.  There are a few basic principles that apply to all audio equipment.  For example, judging tone quality applies to speakers, preamps, amps, cables, analog or digital sources, etc.  Jay may demonstrate amp differences, but the same discussion applies if he later demonstrates source differences.  It is repetitive discussion, but useful as it applies again and again in different contexts to the next many comparisons Jay will demonstrate.  It also applies to many types of music.  Before joining this thread, I never heard of Nils Lofgren.  I can describe his guitar playing and enjoy it as I do classical guitar.  Rhythm, dynamics and tone apply to all types of music, so people of different musical tastes can have more in common in these discussions.

Just be careful not to say "you really know nothing."  This is a negative retort to someone, because the truth is that everyone knows something.  Give each person credit for what they know.  If you disagree with what they say, it is best to explain why in objective, respectful ways.  Ego aka self esteem is a good thing, and everyone needs it, while respecting the other person's ego.

"We may be repetitive, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing."

No, it is a bad thing. 

The repetition of the truth......that we are magnificient can never be said enough. The lack of it is what creates ego......attachments to being right/wrong and all non love in the world.

The repetition of opinions about audio that is based in the ego (right/wrong game) is entirely different.

BTW.....ego is not self esteem. Ego is a false sense of separateness. Real self esteem is knowing that everyone is beautiful. Narcissus looked in the water and only saw his reflection.....this is ego. God looks at us and sees herself. Your soul is connected to all souls.......we are one. When I REALLY feel good about myself.....I want you (everyone) to succeed. Because, I am you.

Of course, many do not want to be called out of the dark cave of self doubt and into the light of truth and freedom. I will severly lessen my sermons......I have spoken it several times.......certainly.....if your heart is open......you heard it already. And if your heart is not that open then words will not usually open them. Come over here and I will hold you and rock you and kiss you and hug you......that will work better. Check out Amma.....the hugging saint.....watch her videos.....will move you to tears.

We are all obsessive......be obsessive about joy, love, peace and happiness. Whatever you put your mind on you become.......pretty darn simple.  The more intense the love feeling is the more you merge with the oject of love.....love everyone.....love everything....love every moment.....with all your passion....with all your joy.

I don't think anyone doubts Vibers system is the best there is, for him. As much time as has been spent on the subject I am still not sure if he's trying harder to convince us also, or trying to convince himself. It's obvious he's not convincing anyone else, and he seems to be a very intelligent guy and can see that, so then I'm left to assume he's trying to convince himself. To be so entrenched in one sound seems that you would have to adapt your sense of sound to the system, and not the other way around. Also if nirvana has been achieved, I am not sure I'd be on a forum where everyone else is discussing how to achieve their goal of the best sound. The end game has already been achieved. While I love my Buell X1 and Honda RC51 motorcycles for what they are, they are nearly as old as Vibers speakers and I'd be a fool to think they are the best motorcycles today, or even were at the time they were produced. I do know, and there can be no dispute, I am the best me there is, or ever was. At least I think so, lol. 

I think i have found the one amp that has completely shown me wwhat is possible with a cost no object design.

This very well could be the "keeper" and the amp that others will be judged by. Nothing is perfect and neither is this amplifier but it has some of the best attributes I’ve found which i now realize are not present or barely audible in other brands.

I have also learned that no live performance or real instruments can be heard for 12 hours straight. The dynamic impact, loudness and everything that encompasses a live performance or live instrument WILL NEVER lead to long listening sessions.

Nobody can sit at a live music event for 8 hours straight and say they didn’t get listener fatigue or ear ringing. Keeping this in mind, i am now a believer that an amplifier that is 100% neutral and accurate WILL put all this in full display: loud dynamic swings, speed, bite and brightness if it’s in the instrument, gut wrenching bass control. It shouldn’t be afraid of complex passages and it should be 100% REAL with you. Never trying to lie or smooth things out (unless you are tuning it via tweaks). Sounds pretty simple? Well, let me tell you that very few amps can give you all of these traits in a single box...

Stay tuned for more.

Jay,

I can't do ANYTHING for 8 hours straight.  Even the best pleasure of S-X wears off after a short time.  You take a break, do something else pleasurable for a short time, then return to each of your pleasures another time.  Classical music concerts have less than 1 hour in the first part, then intermission for 15 min, then another 45 min max, for a total of 2 hours.  Most of the time the music is soft, but the brief moments of dynamic peaks are thrilling.  A great piece of music is skillfully written this way to avoid saturation of the senses.

The first mouthful of my favorite ice cream is the best, with diminishing returns with each bite after that.  At the end of the portion, I want more, but this is an addictive sickness that always ends badly, so I have learned to stop with the first portion.

Oh no Jay!

With the addition of the grounding system and the new server... doesn't this mean you should revisit some of the past great ones???!

Don't know if I'd be happy or sad if you've found your amplifier nirvana!

I think I may have found it. I need to live with it some more. 

The presentation above is still missing a good powercord on the music server, calibration of the transparent cables, more burn in on the master preamp. You are hearing rawness but the immediate potential is quite obvious. Big big things coming. 

Sounds great.  I can't wait to hear more!

I Love the Boz Scaggs

Am I hearing some lacking in the Bass, or is it just "Not Bloated" or not overdone?

It is very hard to tell from where I sit.

Or mabe the woofers need a workout to break in .... ???

Too many variables to say. What i can share is that i had some people come over yesterday to hear these amps and everyone loved the brute power, control and soundstage. I am starting to understand music more and more now because of these amps, but i still need to fully accomodate them in my system (not there yet).

I am also using the VAC preamp which might not necessarily be the very best match for it ( i wont know until i try other preamps). However, even with these challenges, i can feel the untapped potential.

The QKORE was a mind-blowing experience with them too. If i remove it from the system, there is less bass and the intense imaging is lost. I spent nearly 3 hours yesterday trying to figure out why the system was not sounding great when the day prior it was incredible. Long story short, i had the ground cable unplugged from the back of the Master preamp. As soon as i plugged it, it was as if someone turned the lights on within the presentation. 

Jay,

Great news of the new amp, sounds good.  But first please reveal the identity of your mystery amp which was used in the A/B of that vs mine.  Everyone wants to know.  Don't also make it a mystery why you haven't revealed the ID of the mystery amp. The only valid reason is that it costs a million bucks so nobody here would buy it and then wouldn't care what it is. 

Mystery amp/preamp are now packed up and ready to ship out next week. I did take enough video footage and pictures of both pieces for when i decide to reveal what it is. I plan to buy another set of both pieces at some point in 2022. I sold them because i needed to make a move when opportunity knocked at my door in order for me to move into these monos that are now in the room. I have zero control on what is available to me and i need to be ready to make moves when things come my way that i am interested in. If someone called me tomorrow offering me a pair of XVX, i would also pack up the XLF and ship them out without notice. If i was offered a pair of relentess or boulder 3050 monos, etc, etc... the same thing would apply. The more i am exposed to, the more i get to understand what each brand does or doesn't. This is extremely value to me and my understanding of the different approaches to sound reproduction from each manufacturer. 

Honestly......the whole mystery thing here is not honest....he he.  Why would you not reveal RIGHT AWAY when you got a component........what it is?  Could only be for one reason....MONEY......fear of loss of money or the ability to buy something down th road.......Mammon strikes again.   Is there another reason?  Please enlighten us.  It certainly serves no one ele that we do not know wht amp you used in the shootout........what server do you have?  Which one did you have?  We won't tell anyone....I promise.....he he. 

Rice, you're like the kid who sneaked into his parents room to see the Christmas gifts hidden under the bed, lol. You need to know how to play the audience, to draw the maximum interest from them. Leave them wanting for more. Ie the season ending cliff hanger of a tv series. In this case, it could be tomorrow be or it could be a month from now before we get to find out. 

How about...there might be a conflict of interest with dealers that carry the mystery gear and until that gets cleared up I don't want to step on toes. 

That makes sense.

There is the same conflict of interest with dealers that carry every other product you have reviewed and mentioned the name of those products.  By this reasoning, you wouldn't reveal the name of any product you review.  I don't follow your reasoning, but it would be interesting to learn.

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning either.  I did not think you were in consideration of manufacturers or dealers - that you were just buying/owning equipment and sharing your opinion of that equipment, regardless of how it might affect manufacturers and/or dealers.  

Dave

I am not, but that doesn’t mean i may not be interested in a specific product that i could potentially import and become a dealer for IF I FEEL IT IS AMAZING on all counts.

If i haven’t mentioned it, it is because i prefer to stay neutral in order to avoid the confusion even though I don’t represent any brands at this time. If i ever decide to do so, i will be front and center and be completely transparent as well.

Oh, OK, yeah, a different story if you're thinking about becoming a Dealer. 

Dave

That (were it to happen) would kill the non-biased objectivity angle that you now enjoy but at least makes sense as to why the secrecy on disclosure oh these last long months

: )

Having a brand that i might believe in does not mean that the rest of the brands I've owned are no good. I can stay in my lane and continue to give my input on other products in my room. I wouldn't be with a cheerleader outfit cheering for whichever brand i may decide to represent some day. 

A dealer will push what they sell and that's never my approach. 

I can give my opinion on anything I've owned without having to force any brand on anyone. Also, who said that this brand is priced around most people's budgets? It may not be...

Fully agreed kren0006.  On one hand, you have someone with tremendous experience with many amplifier brands and models.   However, for some folks, they won't be able to get past the possible bias of being a Dealer for certain brand(s).

Dave