New amp or new cd player?

Definitely get a better source! But, as mentioned above, if your cables aren't up to snuff, you aren't getting the most out of your system. I had a Consonance Reference 2.2 (6H30 tubed CDP) which sell for around $700 used: a very decent unit. I then went to a upgraded Sony DVP-9000es model with Vacuum State level 6 mods. Sure, it sounded a little better, but I wasn't hearing everything. due to other problems in the chain (cables, lack of room treatments, noisy preamp). Since I have dialed in my system, the difference in the new CDP are obvious: it is so much more dynamic, instruments are layered, the soundstage is extended. But, I had to have the rest of my system at that (very high) level to really allow the player to come into it's own.

It is kind of like a car: you may have a big engine and great suspension, but if your tires are bald or your gas tank leaks, you won't be going very far or very fast. Upgrading one thing at a time doesn't yield obvious results at first: you will need a system that is at the level of that upgrade to really appreciate it.

Looking at the rest of your system, pick up a $1000-1500 (used) source, even better if it is a modded Sony (Modwright or Vacuum State) as you will get great bang for the $ with either one of those. Modded players don't hold resale value well: bad for the re-seller, but good for you! A stock player at that price won't touch a well-modded unit: you would have to spend 2-3x as much.

I also agree with the cable idea: some good cables available for under $100 used, especially if it is sold internet-only. I would also put money into room treatments: the best money I have ever spent on my system is for room treatments. Getting a $1000 CDP and dropping $500 with GIK Acoustics will be much more rewarding than spending $1500 on a used CDP.

James,

If you live near audio stores, I would try to audition the gears suggested so far, in your system, in your room, and see which one you like.

In the end, that's the important thing, isn't it - that y o u enjoy it.

As someone suggested, using computer as the source is also a fun option - you can have your entire library at your finger tip.

You can also stream from sights like rhapsody and www.deezer.com (free sight), and have millions of songs at your finger tip - not even kings of the past had that !

If you want to go this rout, check these links here on audiogon :

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1232064736&openflup&1&4#1

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1&ctg&3&&

I hope I am not confusing you with more choices, but you can get good sound from your computer, and it's so convenient !

I see the interconnects as your first weak link. You should do some swapping and breaking in. Those IC's could be choking the sound before your McIntosh even gets ahold of the signal. Try some Kimber Heroes or something from Transparent that's about the same or a little higher quality level than your WaveLengths.

Next, is it just me, or are high priced CD players a wrong-headed approach to digital sound? So much of the cost of an expensive CD player goes into getting a jitterless read off the polycarbonate disc, which itself is prone to built-in jitter plus the jitter that results from reading from a spinning piece of plastic. Why not go for a playback system that minimizes or eliminates jitter from the equation?

Examples:

Get a Lavry or Benchmark DAC. I'm not sure about the Lavry, but the Benchmark does its own re-clocking, so any jitter in the initially read data stream should largely be irrelevant. With that in mind you could continue to use your Onkyo as a transport. Or get an Oppo DV-980H for a whopping $169.

Get a Macintosh laptop and use it as a server. I think iTunes 8.0 or later on a MacBook (playing lossless digital music files) sounds better than a lot of CD players.

If you go with a computer-based solution, you can also improve the sound with a USB-based DAC such as the Benchmark DAC-1 USB or something (far more expensive) from Wavelength.

Get one or two iPod Classics to use as servers. Using ALC you could fit about 250 GB (420 hours) of lossless music on each one. Get a Wadia iTransport to extract the digital data stream and send it to a good DAC.

Thanks for all the responses. I actually just ordered some Transparent MusicLink Super IC's. Was thinking about picking up a bel canto 2 dac, but didnt see any available here on Audiogon.

Still thinking about buying a used cdp, 2K$ and under.
Maybe the classe 102, mac 201, or even the naim 5i.

I am definately interested in going the hard disk route, just havent decided what the best way to implement it would be. I have all my music on itunes from now on my laptop, but it is encoded in 192kps AAC, so that i can fit my entire collection on an ipod classic (and so it fits on my laptop for that matter). I am thinking about buying a apple mini, or whatever its called, and hooking that up to my system and my flat screen, and using it solely as a music server. Basically it would be like a more expensive apple tv, although I would have the ability to burn cds directly to it in a lossless format without affecting my collection of aac files for ipod use. I like simplicity and I dont want a buncha different little boxes in my av unit. BUt thats another issue, and how I should implement that is a whole 'nother thread.. Looking forward to responses when I get around to asking that question..

I owned a 6450 for about 1 year. I would suggest some other upgrades to bring your system to a similar component level. While you are doing this get out and listen to some other brands and some tube amps too.

The 6450 is good, better for me IMO than the 6300 because it has nice controls to fill in if the CD is flat or if you want a little more body.

I think you will have to spend an additional 1k on an amp after you sell the 6450 to make much difference and perhaps $500 on a cd player, maybe an Apollo or something. Can you be more specific about what you want to hear differently in your system?