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not a charming day with snakes

so, all afternoon and into early into this evening, i listened to the digital side of my rig with a power snakes hydra inserted at different positions. my older son, a second-generation audiophile, was present during the greater portion of this session. during our time together, i began by plugging my pre/dac and transport into the hydra. we played numerous disks, mostly in the “groove rock,” “acid jazz,” “adult rock,” and “folk/pop” genre, including some direct-to-cd recordings done in the past few days ( this son is a consultant to radio stations and record labels, which gives me some awesome access to the current music scene). some examples of discs on our play list: radiohead, “kid a”; air, “moon safari”; phish, various; pink floyd, “echoes”; oysterhead, “the grand pecking order”; mark knopfler, “sailing to philadelphia”; the bobs, “cover the songs of.....”; dylan (also my 1st son’s name), “slow train comin’ ”; dave carter & tracy gammer, “drum, hat, buddha”, etc. (yeah, I know “etc.” doesn’t quite make it with this lineup but, hey....). after listening for an hour and a half or so to numerous cuts on the “play list,” our initial reaction was: wow, the soundstage has really widened but something’s not quite right. then it hit us both, almost simultaneously: the PRaT’s all screwed up. everything sounds constipated, slowed, without rhythm or pace. we then took the hydra from the frontend/source and moved it so i could plug my amp into it. at first, things improved. the supreme quickness of the system returned, while the huge soundstagen remained. as the hydra “warmed up,” however, the constrictions to the bowels increased. constipation again. the flip-side of PraT. unplugging the hydra brought everything back as it had been. the quickness was heard again in the cymbals, drums, lead guitars and mandolins. the bass tightened. voices were back where they should be, separated, focused and steady. thus my query: has anyone else had this experience with the hydra? i’ve heard so many good things about it that I was completely unprepared for the negative things it did in my system.

associated equipment (digital side only): boulder 1012 pre/dac; accuphase dp- 90 cd transport; jeff rowland 8ti amp; avalon eidolon speakers; tara, the one ic’s (pre to amp) and speaker cables; accuphase st att&t optical and accrotech 99.9999 coax digital connections; tara, the one and power snakes python pc’s; 5 dedicated 20 amp circuits w/ hospital-grade outlets.

-cfb
cornfedboy
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albertporter
4,949 posts
 
Cornfed, I had similar results in my system. I did not try them with my digital, but did audition over a three week period using the Walker turntable.

With Powersnakes on my Callisto preamp, Io phono and on the Wolcott amps, I spun lots of LP's. The effect on the Dave Mathews / Santana cut, is still stuck in my head, even today.

One thing I noticed, I am not sure you are describing the same thing, the midrange had a completely "separate" quality about it. At first the Powersnakes seemed to uncover additional separation and detail.

After long term listening, I realized the midrange was a part of the musical spectrum that was not being compressed in the same way (or as much?) as the remainder of the music. This became intolerable in the long term, but it is interesting to remember the effect it had on me.

I did not post results at that time, due to the vast number of Audiogon members RAVING about Powersnakes. It is interesting that with totally different equipment and source, you had equally disappointing results.
tireguy
1,964 posts
 
Kelly-You should get a hold of John(uses the moniker jtinn, here) he is super helpful with this sort of stuff(he sells shunayta among other gear), I am sure he can give you some sort of answer, you may already know him. Any reason in particular you decided to try a hydra? bored with your rig, or just searching for the holy grail?

What are you using the coax digital cable on? trying a different combination of cables seeing if it works better/worse/indifferent from the at&t/st cable? I ask this simply because I was thinking of doing a Hydra prior to upgrading interconnects. I live in a cave which can not be re-wired for any sort of reasonable fee(unless I take down a concrete wall), so I am stuck with a very inadequate electrical set-up.
Thanx for any help,
Tim
cornfedboy OP
1,645 posts
 
albert: i also observed what you observed, tho this effect wasn't as disturbing as the loss of pace/"quickness" in my listening sessions. the PRaT problems i encountered were also manifested by bass muddiness on a number of discs. - kelly
garfish
1,840 posts
 
Hi Kelly; a couple of points; 1) it's been my experience that PRaT is a VERY fragile audio characteristic in high resolution systems-- it's easily destroyed or screwed up (you probably know this too?). I know it because I listen to a LOT of music where good PRaT is essential to its enjoyment (R&R, Blues, Soul, Pop etc.). And 2) in the course of attempting certain "upgrades", I've destroyed or seriously diminished it several times, eg by using a Madrigal AES/EBU cable between transport and DAC, Townshend Seismic Sinks under ML37 transport and ML 360S DAC, AND use of Shunyata Viper 2 power cord on any front end components. And on my amp, the Shunyata Sidewinder also did strange things to PRaT.

I should also mention that putting the Seismic Sink under my tube pre-amp actually improved PRaT, and that's where it's stayed. I also did not keep the Shunyata power cords in my system very long, but they were previously broken-in. BTW, The Syn. Res. Master Couplers that I use on everything had good PRaT right out of the box.

I'm not bashing any of the products mentioned, I'm just saying that they did not work in MY system, and that the loss of excellent PRaT is a VERY serious loss to me. Hell, I'd give up the sport (or start over) if my system permanently lost good rhythm.

A couple of months ago I got Vand. 5 speakers, and at first they didn't have very good PRaT, but I sweated, cussed, prayed, and generally perservered while breaking them in, and now they're great-- maybe not quite up with your Eidolons, but still damn good speakers-- AND with good rhythm;>). Re the Hydra, maybe it just needs some breakin or settle-in time as Rcrump mentions above? My dealer in Seattle highly recommends the Hydra, and I've considered one myself, and so am interested in your thread. Please keep us posted on your progress. Good Luck, and Cheers. Craig
cornfedboy OP
1,645 posts
 
tim: i was at my audio dealer's/best friend's place this am and poked my head around to see what i'd not yet heard in my rig. john suggested i try the hydra with a set of pythons, since i'd played around with some other pc's lately. of course, this was a yet another pathway on which to try to replicate the sound of horses' hooves with dried coconut shells. i've had the coax digital cable for some time; it's always fun to remotely switch cables and reverse polarity on the boulder just for kicks. (you can do much of the same on your accuphase dc-300.) FWIW, i'd try out various ic's B4 inserting a power conditioner (or whatever the hydra is) into your system. you can't make an omelette without first breaking a couple of eggs. -cfb
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