I replaced the VPI minifeet on many models of VPI turntables. Each time there was a huge improvement in sound. My caveat is that I haven't tried it on your model TNT, but I can't see how it wouldn't follow the the same preformance as my Supersoutmaster/Rim Drive. All VPI turntables need a very solid path to the middle of the earth. The VPI feet have "give" in them which is awful for the turntable...the reason that Gingko platforms/rubber balls are awful (yes they are). An easy replacement for the minifeet are Bearpaws (Vermontaudio.com). I have no financial connection in any way to Dan, but the improvement in the VPI table is extraordinay with the addition of these things and the elimination of the "giving" feet.
Optimizing TNT, Triplanar, Transfiguration Temper
I'm writing because of a combination of frustration and potential in my turntable set-up. I have never gotten the sound from the system that I expected, but feel that I am beginning to glimpse the potential of achieving it. I have made some changes recently that have led to more changes that have brought me closer to what I have heard from other systems with similar components. I am hoping someone can guide me toward finally obtaining the basic qualities that I'm looking for and I can fine-tune from there.
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
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- 53 posts total
In tests done by Townshend and others, the effect of adding more seismic sinks was cumlative. So if there was a 10 db reduction in outside noise with one, there was a 20 db reduction with two, etc. this only works in the lower ranges. Townshend did offer multiple layer sinks. I can tell you that my Rock 3 had a very quite background and very tuneful bass that I attribute to the built in seismic sink as well as the tonearm trough. |
Dougdeacon, thanks for the advice on VTF. You forced me to re-check it...and to my surprise, the rubber o-rings I had used to fine-tune the VTF had rotted and failed! Furthermore, I had always been told to use near the max tracking force tolerated. So in sum, I was way off. I also recently read to use the largest counterweight pushed all the way forward, and the next largest possible pushed as far forward as possible. I realized I was using the next size down, so I switched and re-adjusted. I'm not sure I have tweaked it maximally yet, but there's already a dramatic improvement! Thanks again. Now on to the other tweaks... |
Ptmconsulting is spot on w/r to the benefit of replacing the stock VPI elastic belt with thread drive. An intermediate flywheel will further improve speed stability by enabling a more grippy wrap of thread around a larger circumference of the motor and flywheel pulleys. The flywheel will also provide a noise break between the motor and the platter. You were correct to discard the three pulley system. |
12-09-11: Ctlphd I wouldn't say it was dramatic but I thought it a very worthwhile improvement at the time (over my original motor setup - HERE). Howver, for a similar outlay, you may get a better result with the rim drive option - but I haven't heard that. In regards to isolation of the motor - you'll need to experiment with this. When I coupled my old TNT motor with solid cones to the same wooden plinth as the table there was a large transference of motor vibration to the table (via the plinth). The rubber feet were much better. Though I now use the quieter motor/flywheel with split motor/table plinths - where both plinths are damped into the sandbox via aluminium fins - I have persisted with the rubber feet. A stethoscope applied to the turntable plinth confirms the excellent isolation. I have very 'black' quiet backgrounds. Symposium claim they got marked improvements by coupling the TNT motor/flywheel to their 'Ultra' platform using their 'precision couplers' - See here. I haven't heard the Symposium stuff, and one must always be wary of manufacturer claims, but I'm interested in the approach. It's something I may investigate. Whether the direct coupling approach works will be heavily dependent on the platform used and it's isolation from the outsides world. Coupling works both ways. FWIW, in general, I don't like any spongy rubber feet under components. I feel they smear the sound. |
- 53 posts total