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Pieces of music that digital can't get right

Ok I have a litmus test for digital when ever I have the rare option of upgrading my digital front end. Its tough on digital. Brutally tortuous and unforgiving. Digital proponents have a difficult time accepting these sonic tests. 
1. Ok here is the first one. On the opening of America's "Ventura Highway" the opening dueling guitars are ambient and bounce off each channel very pleasantly in the analog domain. In the digital domain the channels are totally separate and too clean and sterile lifeless sounding. They are  not talking to each other It was like this with ny Marantz 8005 but the SA-10 gets halfway there.
2. In the opening of "I Feel Fine" by the Beatles the electric guitar sounds alive with ambiance and decay. The Digital is clean and lifeless.
 Ok am I right with these observation?. I have a pretty good SACD player in SA-10. Its no slouch. Do the mega expensive super smart and accurate DACs get my two above mentioned  passages right? Or are we hearing colored vinyl artifacts. Well if we are I like the record better!
128x128blueranger
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,215 posts
 
bdp24, what mics do you recommend for recording cymbals?  I'm thinking an overhead configuration.
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

I have yet to find a track that digital does not "get right". It all depends on the software, equipment and cables used. I am talking about a track that sounds better on a good vinyl system or reel-to-reel compared to good digital. Not heard one yet. The digital is at least as good and usually better, more dynamic and extended top and bottom.

I recently discovered that I had 24/44.1 tracks of most of the Beatles albums. Sound amazing. I also have "let it Bleed" from the Stones in 24/176.4. Wonderful sounding. Some of the recordings of the 70’s are a bit lacking in bass and dynamics because they were transferred to CD at too low a level. These include some of Carly Simon, Carol King and others. Remasters sometimes solve this, as in the Beatles 24/44.1 tracks.

Steve N

Empirical Audio

blueranger's avatar
blueranger OP
719 posts
 
Steve, thanks for chiming in here. Specifically the into of "Ventura Highway". My Marantz 8005 doesent have the ambience/aliveness that my analog rig has. My new SA-10 gets about half way there and sounds better than the 8005. My main question. Is the ambience in the TT  an analog artifact or aka. bleed thru of the channels. Or is the TT actually playing it correctly. 
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,788 posts
 

@onhwy61, as you may already know, a good small diaphragm condenser mic is best for cymbals. I’ve been recorded with Sony’s (don’t know the model number, but I believe they cost over a grand), the Shure SM81, AKG’s, and Neumann’s (very expensive, found in major studios only). Two used as an overhead stereo pair (one purely left channel, the other right) creates a natural image with "spread".

Whatever mic you use, try using a pretty hefty amount of compression on the pair. A ride cymbal (played with the tip of the stick) so recorded creates an intense CLICK sound, very percussive. That really helps with mediocre ride cymbals, which typically lack attack and focus, Ginger Baker’s being a perfect example. Mushy!

audioengr
3,282 posts
 

My main question: Is the ambience in the TT an analog artifact or aka. bleed thru of the channels? Or is the TT actually playing it correctly?

I would have to hear it myself. I suspect that the ambience is either real and your DAC cannot reproduce it or it is not real and an artifact of your LP system. I will listen to these tracks (Ventura Highway and I Feel Fine) streamed through my high-resolution system this afternoon and report back what I hear.

It is really easy to go down the garden path with either analog or digital. The best way to determine what is happening is to get a high-quality, low-jitter DAC and source into your system (not Marantz) and see how that sounds playing a .wav version of the track or using a transport with low jitter.

Digital jitter can easily muck-up the ambience and less expensive DAC can cause compression and distortion that also muck-up the ambience. I assume you are talking about the venue echoes when you say "ambience".

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

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