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Preamp w/DAC (or Integrated w/DAC) vs. Outboard/External DAC? (Again! Forgive me!)

Please forgive this question if you think it's been answered before. I really have been researching it and am still confused.
Regarding prospective purchases of preamp or integrated amp —total budget about $3-4k.
I am still trying to decide a basic question of tubes vs. solid state.
But, I am *also* stymied by the "external vs. internal DAC" issue. This is the question I'm raising now.
  • Some say "you must get an external DAC because things change so much."
  • Others say, "get an internal DAC, you'll be fine and then can do a pre-out later, if DAC's change."
  • An audiophile friend says, "Even having an internal DAC that you bypass still adds noise, so keep it separate for that reason, too." (He recommends audio-gd DACs.)
  • Because I'm very interested in PS Audio's StellarGainCell (and it has a built in DAC) and I raised the DAC issue with them — I asked, basically, "Why shouldn't I worry about the obsolescence of the DAC in the GainCell Preamp?"
  • PS Audio replied: "It’s true that DAC technology has changed a lot in the last decade and obsolescence has been an issue as the industry has shifted towards streaming….The Gain Cell is compatible with all of the popular formats, like DSD and high rate PCM, so obsolescence is unlikely for what we can foresee. All of the streaming services we’re seeing, even new ones like Qobuz, are doing 24/192 and the Gain Cell is more than capable to handle all of that. While we can’t predict the future, we’re not seeing anything on the horizon that we expect to change this. We haven’t heard of anything that would be game changing and drastically alter this product’s relevance as the Gain Cell can process the file types and sizes we’re seeing with streaming which is increasing in popularity….We’re proud of the design of the Gain Cell’s preamp section, and I think its performance both in the DAC section and the preamp section will have a lot of longevity for years to come."
Any opinions about the general issue?
Any suggested $$ breakdowns for how to spend $3-$4k — how much for preamp, amp, dac, proportionately?
This is a system-building in progress. I'm spending reasonable, similar amounts on other elements but not gobs of money -- e.g. I will not have $5k speakers or a $2k streamer, etc. So if you think I'm over-worrying this question *given my total system's modest profile* you can just tell me straight, "Dude, don't bother worrying about this question. Your system isn't worth it." I'll appreciate that candor, too.

128x128hilde45
erik_squires
16,021 posts
 
Not sure. Parasound has been moving to integrated DAC's for a while, but the president said the very first Pre/DAC was just pure convenience, afterwards they put in more serious efforts.

I wouldn't say an integrated with a DAC was a negative, at all, but my preferences haven't gone that way.
rego
378 posts
 
PWM = Pulse Width Modulation.
PWM in general is a way of handling a Digital Signal.
Class D Amps can process a signal in the digital domain for all parameters.
In an amplifier Power Chips are Highly Efficient compared to Class A / AB.
So different amplification Topology.
McGowan ( PS Audio ) explains like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6h4qYxkCc
Also refer to Technics website:
https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/stereo-integrated-amplifier-su-g700.html
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,974 posts
 
Thanks, @rego. The technical explanation is helpful, but I'm not sure how it impacts the bigger question I asked. Does the fact that PSA uses PWM somehow make their inclusion of the DAC immune to longevity issues? Also, I read some really hard stuff about PSA's product (especially the DAC, oy!) this morning which is causing me some pause:  https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-the-ps-audio-stellar-gain-cell-dac.9273/
djones51
4,947 posts
 
With those speakers I would get an integrated amp, if it has a dac that's fine if not there are good ones that are fairly inexpensive. The Parasound Hint 6 has the power, a pretty good dac and runs $3000 new. The Vincent 237MK has enough power, tube pre section, an older dac but not bad for $2500. Musical  Fidelity M5si ditto for $2000. If you want something different the NAD C388 with bluOS module has the power you need , dac and built in streamer for $2200. Good luck on whatever you decide.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,974 posts
 
@djones51 Thanks for your suggestions. What's the background rationale? Is it because the speakers are basically mid-fi and so there's not much reason to push things in the direction I'm going? In other words, an inbuilt DAC in the equipment level we're talking will be just fine and if I ever evolve my system, I can tackle that question later? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me know if you've got other rationales for your comment. Thank you!
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