Comparing to Martin Logan combos i think a better dynamics/bass could be obtained by matching 988/63 with a woofer then having 989. Not sure how they will work together. Never tried it. |
Also, for a moment esl63 seems to be easier on my ears then a 989 at the store.
Again, probably the break-in issue... |
Hi Katamapah,
Break-in could have been an issue. Quad amps tend to be a little soft...and i am not sure they would have driven them as well as other more high-current amps.
However, i would not be surprised if your initial impressions held...even after a proper break-in. Those who heard the 2905s when i was there said the el63 also was special...though they did say the newer model was far more linear. Hence the trade-off you mentioned.
In my own experience...i started out with Celesions SL6si...and continuing to focus on tubes and other equipment that delivered a very warm sound...but i knew it was a sacrifice of linearity, sharp upper bass punch...in order to keep that mellifluous sound.
Now that i have been fortunate to get some superior electronics that are very linear but also very musical (to my ears)...i actually find myself looking for linear products to join my system. Because the voicing is exactly where i want it...and the more mellifluous products which are also perhaps less linear (like your el63) really do not have a place in my system any longer.
You may find with different electronics (which allow the newer model to shine where it is great)...that you find a different way to msuicality. just a thought.
Despite the paragraph above...none of these electrostats will play rock super-hard. tho the newer ones will be better at it.
good luck and let us know what you decide. |
Thanks, Lloydelee21.
Good points.
I don't know exactly what you mean by linearity, but i guess it is an uniform ability to be precise over all of the frequency range.
For some reason many people from some point on with their equipment prefer "precise" over "magic" for a long run.
I never felt like this before, but now, i start little by little understand them.
I guess, "magic" is good if you listen to very specific type of music (where the magic of equipment is) or for some second or relatively "low cost" (not to confuse with low quality) system. Like with the ESL63. You agree to live with the magic for certain kind of music at certain payoff at all the rest.
On other side, musicality is still very important to me, actually it is most important to me.
What do you mean by
"You may find with different electronics (which allow the newer model to shine where it is great)...that you find a different way to msuicality. just a thought. " ? |
Hi Katamapah,
This is what i mean...building a great system is as much about the right blend of equipment as it is about buying good individual components.
In the case of the 2905s, they have certain strengths...played with the right equipment, those strengths will come to the fore. With the wrong equipment, the strengths may not come forward...or worse, their weaknesses may be further exposed.
Even when you have optimized your system...you may find you tend to play certain kinds of music more often than others. Some systems will play guitar quartets well, female jazz vocals...but not be able to deliver the full weight, majesty of a complex symphony...so you might end up listening to Ella Fitzgerald and Eric Clapton more than Mahler or Beethoven's 7th.
On a related but separate note, i have found many of my buddies (and I) who started out enjoying 'warm and fuzzy' have found that along the path to ever-improving audio...we tend to find that the right balance of higher and higher quality audio components (typically more linear) seems to result greater overall satisfaction. I think we all try to maintain that ear to warm...but linearity helps in detail, echo, decay, etc...which is also an important part of the musical experience.
"just a thought..." :) |
One of the problems is to get know the equipment.
It is almost impossible from one-time listening.
To know the characeter of the speaker, you need to listen to it with different cables and amplifiers at least.
It is not rare that dealer pairs one type of equipment he's selling with other type of equipment he's selling for the only reason he's selling them both, but it is seldom a perfect match. I am not talking about the 989, i heard it in "appropriate" setup consisting of Quad mono blocks and Quad pre. If you are buying second hand your situation may be worst. You have one specific setup (sometimes owner is transition to another setup, so the amplifier he has is not exactly the one that matches the speaker he is selling etc).
Of course, i am not expecting a dealer to have each and every equipment and do any pairing i want. Actually i spend quite some dealer-time with no significant decision yet.
All i am trying is to emphasize the point that unless you familiar with the equipment through different combinations, it is very difficult to see whenever this particular speaker will blend with some yet unknown equipment in the future to form a sound that subjectively good for me.
This is the reason i try to find a speaker that i like, that would sound approximately close to my subjective "perfect" and then i can buy this speaker and build a set around him sooner or later.
At least, i have a reference set to start playing with...
May be i am wrong with my approach. But how else can i "distinguish" a speaker ? I should either listen to it in many different sets (music types) - problematic, or i should find a set at some "sane" budget that will play the speaker the way i want it to...
As for a precise equipment.
Again, i tend to agree with you, although i, myself, still don't feel this way :-) But my recent searches show the more precise equipment is, the more different music types it is able to play.
The problem, it starts to lack magic and becomes more analytical (and fatigue) to listen to. On the other side, SF and Quad never sounds too analytical and probably SF being a dynamic speaker is not bad as all around.
Guarnieri Homage is probably my next homework... |
Correction:
===========
This is the reason i try to find a SPEAKER IN A SET that i like, that would sound approximately close to my subjective "perfect" and then i can buy this speaker and build a set around him sooner or later. At least, i know there is one certain set that i basically liked the sound of my speaker in and i know exactly what this set was...
Given general room resemblance, budget "sanity" of the set and future fine tuning of sources/cables - it brings some hope in the mess :-) |
Hi, do you have any expirience with HPS-938 (Hyperion) spekers ? Do they need a large room to breathe ?
How good they are for classical music ? |
Hi...have not heard Hyperions. As for speakers, i usually evaluate 2 ways. First, using electronics similar to what i have at home (or the same if possible)...that way i can "calibrate" what i am hearing from the speaker (since i have a good idea of what the rest of the system sound like with my speakers at home). (Room itself aside of course!)
Second, i will listen to speakers with electronics that might optimize the sound to understand what it is capable of. Nothing replaces home audition, but we cannot always take everything home to listen! good luck. |
After a while coming back to speaker listening
This time i am going to listen to vintage JBL L300.
Never heard this speaker before.
Any opinions ? |
Hi K,
Sorry cannot help here, other than to say, i have heard older JBL stuff was actually quite good...then they went for night clubs, PA systems, auditoriums and the Everest was the return to high-end home. let us know what you think. good luck. |
My impressions of JBL L300 were very positive.
I understand why some people fall for them.
They are musical and have very sweet vintage(still quite refine and not exceptionally over colored) sound that suits classic rock and jazz. Easy on ears. Big box speakers with deep rich sound.
Overall for me they were nice - very good for classic rock and jazz; OK with modern music and classic. Not as huge bass as one might expect. Need a room space and an SPL volume to reach saturation. Not as refine as today speakers. Different sound from most modern speakers.
Still couldn't call it "a sound i am looking for".
Will continue with the search :-)
SF Guarneri, KEF 107 and Vandersteen 3A seems to be next on my list. Probably Von Shweikert.
As for planar speakers, still looking for some 2nd hand Apogees to listen to... |
If you are looking for Apogee Stages (which are amazing speakers in my opinion),let me know. Dealer i am very good friends with has a pair.
Good luck with SF G. All 3 generations are a little different but all good. |
Late to the party but: I recently auditioned pairs of recently refurbished 989 and new 2905s. (NB I owned QUAD ESLs in England and stacked QUADs and 63 in the USA. I tried Maggies but "went back to school" )
I found both speakers to roll off the top end and reduce transparency even with high damping factor solid state equipment and cables of impeccable pedigree. Valve amps with high output impedance really took off the top.
Since then I have seen measurements from various sources that confirm they roll-off from 8-10kHZ on down even in the "sweet spot." I don't consider a speaker down 15dB at 15kHZ to be a viable offering. Bring on the super-tweeters, Nordic cables and endless tweaking for the hobbyist.
|
Hi
katamapah, May I ask, finally, which speaker did you buy? Thank you! Huy. |
