Rega P3-24, Pro-Ject RM-5, or Technics 1200?

I already have 2 Technics SL-1200 MK2s, but based on things I'd read elsewhere assumed that these would never really be "hi-fi"

Trust your ears and don't care about professors around that speak without to have listened
I have owned many super turtables starting from the first Transcriptor , Thorens , Linn Sondek , Michell , passing through Well Tempered Reference and my latest SME20/a and now I'm enjoing a SL1210 MKII cos I'm waiting to find a super TT
Well, the SL1200 is so good I can wait long time ...
Obviously you should be able to set up a SL1200 at its best .. and not for disco!

Tvad, that is an excellent question. Adam18 has basically answered it for me, as well, thanks. I have heard that if you want to try a different cartridge on a Rega, you have to buy their spacers to do so, as Rega's cartridges are not quite the standard size. Another reason for the after market stuff is that in this hobby, as I am sure you are aware, there are a great many people much more interested in the equipment than the music, and these folks usually can't leave well enough alone, they have to keep messing with stuff.

I should emphasize that this is NOT a criticism of the great many DIYers who use musical reasons as the basis for their experiments. I would love to build my own SET amp, for instance, or my own horn speakers like my uncle did, if I had any engineering skills whatsoever. Maybe after I retire, but that's a long way off yet. In the meantime, I figure that the manufacturer knows alot more about it than I do, so I will not mess with my Rega setup.

Hey folks - thanks for all the responses. Based on suggestions, I think I'm going to start off by changing to a Sumiko Headshell and get the Audio Technica AT150MLX cartridge.

Then I'll get the KAB fluid damper and the Isonoe footers. I'm not sure about the tonearm rewire, as my tables are so old I don't have the original boxes to ship to KAB, and I'm not sure that's something I can do myself.

In fact, after reading through various posts on here, I'm worried about just swapping out the headshell and cartridge. What kind of tools am I going to need to get this set up properly? I see mentions of stylus force gauges, protractors, etc. This is all a new process to me. It's beginning to sound more complicated than I thought it would be and I want to make sure I'm going to be able to pull it off ;-)

Very good explanation, Learsfool, and good question, Tvad....... From what I've gathered by reading a gazillion reviews of Rega TT's in preparation for my upcoming purchase of a brand new Rega P3-24 with a Rega Exact cartridge mounted and set up by my dealer (Yea !!!....only a week away.....I can hardly wait !), the VTA of both the RB-301 and RB-700 arms is pre-set for Rega cartridges. Using other brand pick-ups will require the proper use of single or multiple 2mm. shims under the arm base to provide the proper VTA. VTA adjustments should not be necessary with the Rega cartridge line. One of the many reasons for my choosing the Rega Exact instead of the Dynavector 10x5 or Benz-Micro Ace is that I feel the "systems approach" of matching a Rega cartridge with a Rega arm and a Rega table makes sense. Obviously, others may disagree, but that's how I feel.
Now,....let's all relax, cue up our favorite record, and enjoy the music !!

Hi guys - I thought I made it clear that I had not heard a modified Technics, and that therefore my comments only applied to the unmodified one, which I have heard. I take your word for it that the modifications improve it, but I stand by what I said about the unmodified ones compared to the Regas.

As for the Bellari comment, I posted that because the OP already has one, and I use one myself with my Rega P5/Exact 2 combo - I am fully aware that it is for MM only.

A couple of other comments about using the Regas - the platter comes up to speed within 5 - 10 seconds, this is not an issue to me (I also use the TT-PSU), and I don't see why one would turn off the platter in between LP's anyway? What would be the advantage of doing this? Also, the Rega's are designed so that one does not have to mess with VTA - I have never found an adjustment to be necessary, assuming the table was set up properly in the first place. They do have an anti-skate adjustment. I don't own any 45's, but it is very easy to move the belt if one wanted to. As for having to change it once a year, that I hadn't heard before, and I have only had mine eight months now. The belt shows no visible signs of wear yet. I would think it will last much longer than one year.

By saying I am not a tweaker, I meant that I was never very technically inclined, so the Regas, which are about as close to set-it-and-forget-it as it gets, appealed. Mine was set up for me by my dealer, who also mounted the cartridge, and I don't plan on messing with the set up in the future unless I have to (though I did brave a small anti-skate adjustment, which was easy and made a huge difference). Since then I have learned quite a bit more about the whole thing, and am still learning - I have learned a great deal from everyone on this site in particular. When I eventually do upgrade the whole analog rig, which won't be for a long time yet, I will know much more than I do now, and will be ready to be more of a tweaker if required. But in the meantime, the Rega both sounded better and was less overall fuss, the perfect combination for me.

12-08-08: Learsfool
Perhaps I would change my mind if I heard a modified one, but in the meantime I would disagree with Johnny, I think the Regas have a far better soundstage, image much better, and have much better resolution of instrumental timbres than any Technics I have ever heard.

In other words, you have not heard a Technics set up as I described, so you have no frame of reference for what it can do. Much of the inner detail, microdynamics and macrodynamics come alive in the Technics with the add-ons and platforming mentioned previously.

I am also not a tweaker, so the simple Rega set-up appealed for that reason as well.

Just changing the speed on the Rega to play 45 rpm requires removing the platter and moving the rubber band... er... drive belt to a different pulley. On the Technics you push the "45" button. On the Rega, if you want to change VTA you either shim the cartridge or unbolt the tonearm and add extra-cost shims there. On the Technics, you flip a lever and turn a calibrated helical height adjuster. On the Rega, users often let the platter spin awhile before dropping the stylus onto the record to enable the platter to come up to speed and smooth out. Some owners even make a point of changing records while the platter is spinning so they don't lose momentum between sides. On the Technics as you would well know, it's up to speed in less than a second. On the Rega you change the belt about every year; on the Technics you add some bearing oil every 2,000-3,000 hours of play. On any tonearm with integrated headshell you have about 1-2" clearance to get under the headshell and mount the cartridge and hope that the stylus protector works if the cart slips out of your hands before you can thread the nuts onto the bolts. On a Technics you remove the headshell and can give yourself as much room and any angle you'd like to mount the cartridge with the least risk of damage. Which type of turntable is tweakier to operate and maintain? As Tvad said, once the improvements are installed, they don't change how you operate the turntable it all. It just sounds better.

Getting back to the original post, I would also add that many people, including myself, consider the Bellari mentioned a good match for the Rega tables, another reason to choose the P3-24.

The primary factors for matching a Bellari to a turntable would have little to do with the turntable itself, but would have everything to do with the output of the cartridge and somewhat to do with the capacitance of the interconnects to the Bellari, and possibly from the Bellari to the line stage. The Bellari has a great reputation, but it also has a fairly low amount of gain. This would limit you to high output moving magnet and moving iron cartridges, and maybe some high output moving coils, but they'd be playing on the low side.

There are some great HO carts out there for the Bellari though, such as the Grados, the Rega MMs, Cartridge Man MusicMaker, and the Audio Technica AT150MLX. I'd put the AT150MLX in the same performance ballpark as the Elys, only you can get the AT150MLX for $250, and can replace the stylus for $180.

I had a modded NAD533 which was a Rega on steroids. I like my SL-1200 better.

Tvad, I used to have a Technics that was a stock model. I have always considered Technics to be very much mid-fi, I am a little puzzled about the great numbers of people who seem to like it here and on that other audio forum. I have not heard it with modifications, but it never struck me personally as a table that would be worth modifying when there are better options available in the first place, IMO. Perhaps I would change my mind if I heard a modified one, but in the meantime I would disagree with Johnny, I think the Regas have a far better soundstage, image much better, and have much better resolution of instrumental timbres than any Technics I have ever heard. I am also not a tweaker, so the simple Rega set-up appealed for that reason as well. Getting back to the original post, I would also add that many people, including myself, consider the Bellari mentioned a good match for the Rega tables, another reason to choose the P3-24.

12-08-08: Learsfool
I would say a P2 easily beats the RM-5. I haven't actually heard the new P3-24, but I have heard the P2 and the RM-5. I would also say it beats the Technics easily. I think that the Regas have a much bigger soundstage, and image quite a bit better as well.

Not me. I heard the Rega 3/24 in an all-Rega demo rig and I'll stick with my SL1210 M5G, thank you very much. Some of the "Rega detail" sounded exaggerated and didn't have the solid center image and timbral focus I get from the SL1210M5G.

As for mods to one of your SL1200s, I'd recommend you get the tonearm rewire first and foremost, followed by the KAB fluid damper and the Isonoe footers. Get a better mat, at least KAB's 17-oz. Technics "Supermat" or an aftermarket mat from Herbies, Iron Audio, etc. Change out your headshell for a Sumiko or the ZuPreme from LPGear, and upgrade your cartridge to a Denon DL-160 or Audio Technica AT150MLX.

To beat that you'd have to spend a LOT more money starting from scratch with a belt drive 'table .

I would say a P2 easily beats the RM-5. I haven't actually heard the new P3-24, but I have heard the P2 and the RM-5. I would also say it beats the Technics easily. I think that the Regas have a much bigger soundstage, and image quite a bit better as well. If these things are not as important to you though, then you might as well stick to what you have.

If you've already got the table - no brainer...keep it and seek some KAB mods. Perhaps the dampener and a tonearm re-wire for starters..I can vouch for the dampener, but only am repeating the testimonials of others on the re-wire.

Denon DL-110, DL-160, Ortofon 2M line, Dynavector 10x5 are common pairings...search The Vinyl Asylum for other suggestions.

Depending on how far you want to take it, you may want to consider another phono pre???

Good luck!