Just wanted to share that another USA reviewer, Micheal Wright, this month did a review on the AA Tube DAC and gave it a superlative total "thumbs up" for its sonic performance.
Mike used to be a staff reviewer for the website, Stereo Times, he now is a reviewer for the Website, Ultraaudio. I have always enjoyed his reviews and believe he is an excellent writer with very good ears' regarding what a piece of gear really has to offer. For details regarding his take on the AA Tube DAC take a look his review. The only aspect I was concerned with he auditioned it with JJ/Telsa 12AX7 tubes, yet he still thought it's a killer DAC. However based on my experience the performance goes to a much higher level with the right NOS tubes compared with the stock tubes even in the SE version of the DAC. |
Guys, I just found another gorgeous sounding 12AX7 tube for the AA Tube Hybrid DAC, 1953 longplate Siemens.
This tube offers a touch more air/extension on the top, a slightly faster bass, an overall sense of more dynamics/details, yet is still retains the warmth/musicality in the midrange like the Amperex Longplate G-getters. Both are wonderful in this DAC, yet just a touch different. |
OK. Thanks a lot.
BTW, do you have experience on Vovox products (textura interconnect, power strip)?? |
Eric, have fun with your new pieces! Yes, give them at least 60 to 100 hours to burn in. As far as your concern over transparency, it should clear up with break in. I found the Dac1 MK4 to offer great performance, so give it a chance to settle in and let us know what you think. |
Hi, Teajay,
I just got AA Drive1 MK2 + DAC1 MK4 yesterday. My initial feeling is the sound is warmer than before. However, it's not so transparent as before. The soundstage focus is also a little bit bigger!
Do you got the same experience when you use Drive1 MK2 + DAC1 MK4?? Or it needs some time for my combo to run-in / warm-up first?
Thanks.
Eric |
But some of well-known European brands such as Symphonic Line, Soulution, Densen, release their expensive new ref cd player. It's 1-box player with separated power supply.
BTW, since I am living in Hong Kong, not in USA, I would like to know every advice: is it safe to buy expensive gears (yes, AA Drive1 MK2 + Tube DAC Ref. is huge amt to me) at Audiogon?? |
Cykeric, since I own in my collection over 6000 redbook CD's, that's the only format I care about. In my opinion your statement that CDP's have a sonic advantage regarding getting rid of jitter, hence sounding better has not been my experience. I have listened to three of the highest regarded players and found them to be good but not as good as the AA reference Tube Hybrid in my system. So, I would recommend you keep your AA transport and upgrade to the Tube reference, with the right NOS tubes, this would offer you a much higher level of musicality in your system. |
Thanks a lot Teajay. I read your full review, and also other comments from AA Drive 1 MK2 & Dac 1 MK4 & tube DAC II.
BTW, I am using AA Drive 1 MK1 + DAC 1 MK2 for abt 6 yrs. Now, I am hesitating if I should go for one of the following:
1. AA Drive 1 MK2 + DAC 1 MK4 / Tube DAC II
2. Audiomeca flagship transport + DAC
3. Luxman D08
It seems that the digital trend is towards 1-box player, with separated power supply. Do u think it's wise to get cdt + dac if upgrade?? Heard that the advantage of 1-box player is "totally solving the jitter problem".
Below is my little system for your ref.:
Speaker: Eventus Phobos
Pre: Luxman C800-f
Pow: Luxman M800-A
Rack: Finite Element Signature
Each gear is connected to wall socket directly with dedicated in-wall cable (individual fuse).
Moreover, I am a Redbook CD collectors, and I got over 2000 collections (actually I have no time to listen to them so start to sell some in order to get some money back, haa..). |
Cykeric, I'm a little confused, I did GON reviews on both the DAC 1-MK4 and the Drive 1-MK2 which compared them to the first generation AA pieces, not the Reference Tube Hybrid DAC. Take a look at them, if you have not already.
Regarding your question about what is the difference between the tube DAC 11 and the SE version, the SE version uses some higher tolerance parts and supplies you with what are called special "NOS quality tubes". Well, at least the SE unit I heard came with JJ 12AX7 tubes, which ain't special, not NOS and sound like crap. The sonic difference between my DAC 11 and the SE version was my DAC sounded better with the tubes I use, NOS 12AX7 Amerex Bugle Boy long plate G getters. If I was buying new right now I still would buy the tube DAC 11 which sells for around $1200.00 less then the tube DAC 11 SE and go out and buy some great NOS tubes, cost would be around three to four hundred dollars, save alot of money and still have a DAC that out performs the more expensive model. This DAC's sonic performance is greatly effected by what tubes you use. So for my money I want to pick what NOS tubes that give me what sonics I'm looking for. So, in my opinion the change in a few parts or their working tolerances did not make any significant sonic inprovement, but without casting aspersions towards either AA or the US importer the DAC SE I experienced did not come supplied with NOS tubes, I guess the JJ's are better then the EH stock tubes in the DAC 11 but they both are crappy sounding, and you are supposely spending some of the extra cost on NOS tubes provided by AA. Can't answer your question regarding the top cover, the units I have seen all have the craved out tube design. |
I notice there are 2 versions for tube DAC II. One is tube DAC II ref, and the other is tube DAC II SE. Which one is more updated?? The outlook is also diff. One is without "tube" wording on the top, and the other is. So, which one is SE and which one is ref?? Thanks. |
Thanks very much Teajay.
However, your review is on AA tube dac and the comparison is on AA tube dac with MK4, not MK1/2 with MK4. |
Cykeric, the short answer is no, it won't sound too forward and not natural enough.
Read my review of both pieces for the details why both pieces, Drive 1MK2/DAC 1MK4, will be an improvement sonicly over the prior generation. |
Hi,
I am currently using AA Drive 1 MK1 + DAC 1 MK2, and consider to upgrade to Drive 1 MK2 + DAC 1 MK4. Will Drive 1 MK2 + DAC1 MK4 sound more mechanical and hifi compared with Drive 1 MK1 + DAC 1 MK2? I just a bit worry abt the this upgrade will cause the sound too forward and not natural enough! |
On the website, Postive Feedback Online, reviewer Marshall Nack just posted his review of the Accustic Arts Drive 11 and the Tube Hybrid DAC 11 SE and stated, "At its price point, it is the best I've come Across". For the details of why he came to that conclusion read Mr. Nack's review, but for us that own the AA Tube DAC 11, the SE version costs $500.00 gives you better tubes and a few upgraded parts, but basicly sounds the same as the regular DAC 11, we know already that it's still one of the best sounding redbook DACS and competes with virtually anything out there regardless of price. I'm glad a good reviewer, in my opinion, here in the states finally is giving the Accustic Arts gear some well deserved credit. |
Chris, I have to say I was shocked when I read your comments and disagree with your findings and would look elsewhere within your set-up.
What does your system consist of, my speakers are MBL 101E's which are very revealing and I'm fully enjoying this DAC. |
Chris, my experience has been the opposite of yours. I found DACS like Audio Note and Zanden to be "closed in" with lack of extension and sparkle/airness on the high frequencies. The AA Tube Hybrid DAC has great extension on top, not rolled off at all, with lots of detail and beautiful/natural timbres. I would assume the tubes I use, NOS Amperex longplate D-getters have a helping hand in this great top end in my system. |
TJ and others, do you think the AA Tube DAC's treble is sometimes a bit on the bright side? I prefer a DAC with extremely refined and airy treble.
Chris |
Eye candy photos of Accustic Art Reference Drive2 + Accustic Art Tube DAC2 combo HK Hifi Review coverDemo setupI have heard the combo and it's stunning. ;-) |
Hotbird - the most recent retail I read was EUR 57100 !!! Outrageous price for sure, reserved for the super rich or super foolish, or both... as its only a small part of a full system.
But again a smaller new player in the business with a radical new design concept being pushed around by the establishment who are trying to protect their market interest with lesser innovative products at diminishing quality levels...
The value for money ratio of the AA DACII is again looking pretty solid! |
"GTE Trinity DAC"...heard of it as the most expensive DAC ever made, costing EUR44,000. TNT-Audio got a write-up on it 2 years ago, it seems that that they were offered for review, but they kind of turned it down (read their final conclusion) http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/trinity_tech_e.htmlAt 44K Euro, it's really not a fair comparison with regards to pricing with the AA DAC2. But not sure whether the perceived performance improvement over AA is going to worth that much of price difference ;-) |
Mtkhl567, thanks for your comments. When I contacted the new importer for Accustic Arts for the US, who seems to be a good guy and a fine gentleman, regarding the differences between the Dac II and the SE, they revolved around NOS Russian tubes vs the tubes sourced from China and as you stated higher tolerances regarding quality control.
Well, I'll stick with my long plate 1940's Amperex and the difference it would cost to change to the SE does not seem justified when the performance increase might be just a slight improvement/difference over the standard DAC. |
Teajay, I'm not so sure that the SE version is going to bring a whole lot of musical improvement to your system in particular. The SE version is only an improvement of the output tubes (Super Premium Military Outputtubes) and the quality control (production) procedures are more elaborate vs the standard DAC II. Knowing that you've tested all output tubes under the sun, maybe all you want to do is find out what exact tubes are that they have in mind. In Europe the SE version will be EUR 400 more than the standard version costing EUR 6390. Acoustic Arts themselves say that not everyone will be able to hear the sonic improvements, the SE version will sound ever so slightly softer with same level of precision. I'm getting my new DAC (different brand) soon, and then I will decide whether to buy the DAC II just for RBCD playback or not.
Btw, anyone heard the AA DAC II against the GTE Trinity DAC? Maybe not a fair comparison... |
Teajay is thinking about a new Dac. Summer must be over! |
Special Edition?? This is the first time I hear the news that the Tube DAC2 has an SE brethen. Any weblink to this news where I can get more info on what makes the SE version so different ? I have still yet to get my hands on the Reference Drive2, and now the Tube DAC2 SE. I wonder will there be a Reference Drive2 to match. Hmmm..... |
I just recently bcame aware that Accustic Arts has come out with a special edition version of the Tube Hybrid DAC. My past experience with all Accustic Arts digital pieces has been when they come with a new MK generation or brand new gear that the sonic performance is an improvement over the last generation. This company has integrity and only comes out with new stuff when they know that have gotten a real improvement sonicly compared with the older generation. So, I'm thinking about making the move, anyone else, what do the rest of you Tube Hybrid DAC owners think? It's hard to believe that the SE version would be that much better considering the stellar performance of present DAC, but you never know. |
Well like Teajay, I have heard the AA Tube DAC2 and Drive Mk2 combo against Esoteric X01D2 with external Esoteric clocks combo, dCS Pucinni, emmLabs combo equipment that have combined prices many times the AA combo, and still preferred the AA Tube DAC2 stuff. Thus for those who wants to save big money but yet still get the SOTA digital performance, AA digital equipment is the way to go to stretch your falling dollar. Just hoping I can get my hands on the Accustic Reference Drive2 soon, which I am sure would be a big upgrade over the old Drive Mk2 ;-) |
Just wanted to share that I recently listened to three very highly regarded digital front ends and the Accustic Arts Tube Hybrid really "hangs" sonically with these other reference level pieces. I'm not saying that the AA DAC was better, however I did not go back to the tube Hybrid with any sonic regrets at all. But here's the punch line the other digital pieces cost at least $8000.00 to $30000.00 more then the Accustic Arts DAC! So, I still believe that for what this DAC sells for and how it competes with hughly more expensive reference pieces that's it is still one of the great bargains in very high end digital front ends. |
My goodness, horrified to know that this reviewer Mr Sommers is comparing brand new SOTA digital equipment with his antique digital setup, namely his PS Audio DLIII and Wadia transport and then hear little differences. Guess I don't want to find out more of what he writes after this revelation,as it appears to me that this reviewer certainly do not have a setup with a resolution like Teajay's to do proper comparisons ;-) |
Just read up on a Wadia WT3200, here's the link:
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/wadia%20WT%203200/WT3200.html
Its basically a Marantz transport (Philips 960) from the early 1990s when CD first came out. I can't believe that Mr Sommers believes the Drive II only slightly better than his ancient transport. Same is probably true for his DAC. My regard for this reviewer has just gone down the drain... |
Hotbird, Mr Sommer compares the Drive II with the Wadia WT3200 (I don't know this piece at all) and says it is slightly better in portraying a realistic soundstage, provides a little more air around instruments. He stresses the difference is not very big though. So pretty much audiophile bla bla speak. He falls short of saying its the best combo he ever heard, but does praise its relative price/value ratio. He says the same about the DAC II vs his PS Audio DLIII. I'm surprised he is not able to articulate more, or better, the differences with his gear. |
Hi Mtkhl567, I am actually already sold on the virtues of the Tube DACII, what I am wondering is what does that review actually says of their latest Reference Drive2 transport? Thanks again in advance. |
Ok, here a translation from Dirk Sommer's review in Aprils Image HiFi:
Liked: how much room and dynamism the DAC II solution extracts from standard redbook CD (16bit/44.1khz).
Surprised: how incredibly high value of price to enjoyment ratio you get - even when you have to pay a hefty sum in absolute terms
Missing: the possibility to play at sample rates above 48Khz
To do: compare this dream combo against clearly more expensive components
So obviously he liked the sound of the AA reference combo a lot, but also clearly states its limitations. I loved the sound of the AA DACII as well, and for playback of RBCD its the best I've heard. That doesn't mean much though, as I have not heard a whole lot. My wish would be to be able to have 24/192 or DSD level detail and the wonderful sound of the DACII. Clearly this limitations lies in their unique 32bit DAC implementation. Maybe Steffen Schunk is working on that ... |
There's a new German review of the Accustic Arts Reference Drive 2 and DAC 2 at http://www.accusticarts.de/pages/en/reviews/imagehifi_2008_04.htmlAs it's not in pdf but screenshots, I cannot cut and paste to some language translators to get the gist of that review. If someone knows german, would be keen to know what the review says in conclusion. Thanks in advance. |
Ben, if you want to compare Audio Note CDT3, you can only compare it with the lesser Drive1 Mk2, which is of similar pricing. The new Reference Drive is the Accustic Arts statement transport, with no-hold-pricing but yet is still less expensive than the MBL 1521 MSRP(2nd tier in MBL range, top is the 1621) which Teajay has just upgraded to. For an equitable comparison of transports at this level, one should compare the new Accustic Arts Reference Drive to the MBL 1521/1621 as firstly both are made in Germany (so share same quality of build) and secondly, are in the similar price bracket (though with MBL still commanding the higher premium)
If you check earlier threads in this review, there's already a comparison of differences between AA Drive1 Mk2 and the Reference Drive, to illustrate what you get for the price difference. There's also a referenced URL to MBL transport specifications to show that the AA's specs are as good as MBL's if not better in certain areas. So make sure you check those links to make an educated comparion between the two. Of course nothing's more accurate than listening to both side by side. But until the AA Reference Drive production units are already delivered to the distributors world-wide (my local dist. still's awaiting delivery), Reference Tube DAC2 owners can only wait with anxious expectations ;-) |
Mtkhl,thanks for your information, wow its price nearly two times more expensive than AA drive1 MK2, so Audio Note CDT3 might be a good contender
with its cheaper price... |
Ben, FYI ... the AA reference transport retails for EUR 6990 in europe. |
I have compared Stealth sextet AES with BNC terminated both are latest version
the BNC ended is belong to my friend and my AES one is between AA Drive II
and AA DacII MKIV, Stealth cables both are very good performer BNC one is more solid,it has more tight bass and more dynamic,AES one has more weighty
and rounded bass and more textural midrange,BNC one has more sparkle on top frequency AES top spectrum more smooth,these are my observations in my system and the differencies are not big but very small margin.
As for the new AA transport I could not find any information about its price here in Europe does anybody know how much its retail price?
BTW one of my friend has an Audio Note transport and claims it is better than AA, has anyone tried Audio Note transport with AA dacs?
Ben |
Hi Chris, I answered your other thread without seeing this one posted by so I have my answer. What transport are you currently using?, have you changed the tubes as of yet? and if so what did you go with and what were your findings?
Great piece and will be hard to replace, to answer your question about transport. The answer would be yes! along with digital cables, not too sure about PC's as I have not got around to those comparisons. I'm currently using a Stealth Dream PC and the IC from AA Dac to pre is a balanced Stealth Indra latest version all with Stealth's connectors. Currently I'm comparing two of the most current Stealth Sextet digital cables, one being AES and the other BNC and the difference is very obvious. Now the problem arises which one do I prefer and why, well that answer is still to come.
|
I also have the Accustic Arts Tube DAC now. It reminds me of Lavry sonically. Btw, do you think the Tube DAC is sensitive to a variety of transports?
Chris |
Hi guys,
I just replaced the stock tubes with cryo'd Mullard CV4004's. Quality of sound is even more pumped up: more 3D, warmer, full bodied voices and instruments, detailed sound. Recommended !
Renaat |
Shahedk, I was very lucky that dear friend and fellow audiophile had an extra reference clamp and sold it to me for what he had bought it for. The retail price is $600.00, he had obtained it for $300.00, don't know were, and that's what he charged me. By the way, it really makes the transport perform on a higher level compared to the standard clamp.
I never opened up the transport, so I can't help you out regarding the layout or parts that MBL uses in it besides the description on their website. |
teejay
where and for how much did you get the reference clamp for the mbl transport?
have you checked the inside of this transport,
as i have not been able to find any pictures of this.
thanks |
Hi Dev, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I loved what the AA Hybrid Tube DAC II did in my system and after I've done my room tuning, its next on my list. With regard to their new Reference transport, it lists for EUR 7000 over here and is easily gotten with for a decent price. I'd have to believe that in terms of value and craftsmanship the new AA transport is up there with the DAC when compared to others. I'm a fan of Sergei (stealth) too, and I only use his hyperphone cable now but heard/read very good things about the Indra etc.
I won't get to try out the AA combo until later this summer though... and I am a bit partial about its inability to process DSD signals |
I had made an error within my thread and not sure which one will be posted first but just wanted to make the correction, the MBL 1521a list for $10,950.00 not $13K so I just wanted to make the correction.
The MBL 1621 $24K and the MBL 1622 $27,500K Oracle 2000 is around $8K.
|
Hi Mtkh1567 the Reference AA Transport looks interesting.
I have owned a few of the "AA" pieces and currently own the AA Hybrid Tube Dac which I truly am enjoying. I did own the Line Drive II Transport but found that it was not really offering the improvement that I was exspecting over the previous drive I was using so the search was on and I had the opportunity to demo the latest Oracle 2000 transport and a Kalista Reference transport. The "AA" transport was good but the two others mentioned most defiantly gave me more of what I was looking for, from the first song. I did find the Kalista superior but not by a large enough margin to pay the difference, suggested list price over $50K Wow! The Kalista Ref also did not play a few pieces of music that I had previously never had any issues with, this really disturbed me. A friend brought over his Forsell Transport and it was also really nice but again had issues with not playing pieces and then the seal for the lid just stopped sealing properly. I have heard from others that the Forsell when working properly is hard to beat but very sensitive and there are reliability issues.
I will say with the Oracle 2000 there is a substantial audio difference just swapping the Stealth digital cable from AES to BNC connection. I use Stealth's latest Sextet digital cable with their own connectors and have one in BNC-BNC and the other AES connection.
I own MBL 101E speakers so their Reference Transports 1621A and now the new Ref 1622 along with the one below 1521a spoken of in this thread here does have my interest but the list price of these are how much? The 1521 just alone list for more than $13K I believe which is substantially higher than my current Oracle 2000 so my expectations would be very high and so far just swapping the two different cables and tubes in the AA Dac make substantial sonic differences. The recently new MK2 CEC transport also has my interest but again the list price is double $18K+ and just slightly higher than than the MBL 1521a so again my expectations would be high.
Look forward to reading anyone's thoughts once they try the new AA Reference Transport and comparison against what???
|
Wow, I recently heard the Metronome Kalista, and as impressive as it looks, the sound wasn't all that fantastic. The rest of the system didn't help and the room was a hotel room, so not completely fair assessment. However, they were quoting the new price at EUR 36000(!) or USD 57000(!!!) at todays FX rate. If on top of that there is a high defect rate... imagine what kind of damage you can to to your own wallet. Just goes to show that you really have to be careful in this hobby.
I'm going to try out the new AA reference transport/DAC soon, should be impressive. |
i agree totally regarding the metronome,
i have heard this company has problems in failure rates.
In Hong kong , when i visit,i tend to see a few of them in second hand shops for around 100000 hkd(us 12500 approx) .
however metonome and aero audio have many issues iv heard of from these sellers.
The germans make more reliable electronics then the french, thats what many people i heard also believe. i have yet to hear about any failures from a burmester, mbl,aa ect.
one thing though, iv never been able to see the insides of any mbl transports, does anyone have this? what are they using in there? |
I hope that even if you already bought the MBL Transport, you will have the opportunity to compare it against Acoustic Arts Reference Drive2 when it becomes available in your vicinity. IMHO, looking at the new specs of the Ref Drive2, the performance of the new AA Reference Drive should be at least comparable to the MBL transport or even their top model the 1621. The only thing it lacks is a bigger clamp...maybe AA will introduce a clamp upgrade in future ;-) |
Mtkhl567, to be quite frank there was three reasons I chose to audition and then purchase the MBL transport:
1) I heard the reference MBL in a good friend's system and was quite impressed with what it did with his DAC, which sounds very much like AA Tube Hybrid DAC, and became very interested to audition the smaller brother in my system.
2) I was able to set up an audition of the MBL and thought it was absolutely the best sounding transport I have ever heard in my system. In the past I have either owned or auditioned such highly regarded pieces as the ML 31.5, CEC TL-1, Oracle reference, Accustic Arts Drive MK11 and the MBL was much better sonicly then all of them.
3) I was offered a great price that would be significantly less money then what the new AA reference transport would cost me.
Based on my experience with Accustic Arts digital gear I bet the new reference transport will be a great step forward over the Drive MK11, however will it out perform the MBL, that I'm not so sure of.
A final addressing Shahedk's interest regarding the Kallista transport. This line is no longer imported into the US because of a very high failure rate. My friend who has in his system the MBL reference transport at one time had the Kallista reference and believes the MBL is better sounding then the Kallista and is built to a higher standard then the Kallista. |
Shahedk, just be aware that the AA tube DAC II does not handle SACD source material or DVD-A, only redbook CD. |
