Say it aint so--- Teres quality question

Goofy crap was intended for the ants, termites etc. comment. Believe me, I do not consider conservation goofy. But, there is a substantial amount of wood out there already. The Cocobolo I am using is an "estate piece" that was harvested in the 1920's. The rest of the wood is old as well. I'm funny about that kind of stuff. My shop is set up for production work and I mostly use engineered wood products. Paul's shop, Period Furniture Restoration, where I'm building the TT, is a craftsmans shop of the highest order. We do not misuse/abuse the medium in which we work!!

I don't think in the Teres plinth (or any other) there is anything remotely resembling tolerences. Now, before I catch hell for this, listen. As long as the top and bottom surfaces are parallel to each other, nothing else matters!! Otherwise you could not level it. Think about it. For that matter, the top does not even have to be flat, as long as the bearing is exactly 90 degrees from horizontal. I've been experimenting with designs, and this is the ONLY requirement that is set in stone.

Basically, the same goes for the armboard. Level, and the right height. It really does not even have to be part of the plinth. As long as it is stable, solid, and non-resonant, you're ok.

Obviously, resonance is a major issue with all of the pieces, but lets leave that issue for another day.

Platters are a different story. The major requirement there is balance. If the weight is not balanced, it will not run true, and will not be able to keep a constant speed. Of course, this requires balance in all axises (axii?) also.

Now, I want to make one thing clear about my comments. I AM IN NO WAY A TURNTABLE EXPERT!! YET. I have done sh**loads of reserch on this subject. I intend to build custom tables for sale. I have a couple of design ideas that I think are really cool, and I also think I can compete with anything out there. My brother-in-law has doctorates in electrical engineering and physics, and as far as the electronics are concerned, he and both I think the Teres motor/controller are the cat's ass! He's also a lawyer, but I don't hold that against him since intelletual property law is his specialty!

One more thing. I think we should turn this thread into a forum for the design issues we have with turnatables. Maybe designs you would like to see. As I said in my last reply, I fully intend to become the next turntable manufacturer out there. I plan on starting out making 2 a month, and going from there. This obsession is starting to make me go right to Paul's shop in the morning, not to mine! We have been spending more time with design ideas lately than I have spent finishing my table. I gotta get this damn thing done!

Some design ideas/questions:

1. Teres motor/controller/bearing but direct drive? Psychic, you listening?

2. Alternative plinth materials?

3. Wood tonearms ala the old Grados

4. Oil/lead filled platters. I found a way to do it.

5. Just how crazy are we?

So, if you were going to have someone custom build you a table, what do you want to see? And, who is going to be the lucky one to review my new table serial #1? Does anybody think there is a better bearing than the Teres? Or their motor?

Preamp of the century my ass, let's see where this goes!!

Joe

You know, the lag time on these posts are killing me.

David, I got a little carried away there:

"I can build you one that is absolutely perfect in every aspect, but it will cost you 10-12k. And that's for just a wood one, no inlays, no bells and whistles, no veneer. End grain on the edges. Do you want to spend that?

No, I don't want to spend that, and to do it right should not cost anywhere near $10-12K WITH INLAYS. Oy. You have really got to be kidding on this one. But, yes, the proper pressing equipment in the laminating process and GRAIN MATCHING AND SELECTION TO ACHIVE PROPER GRAIN ORIENTATION is more costly than folks might imagine."

It was meant a little to be a little sarcastic, and I agree with your comment. I feel that absolute quality DOES NOT HAVE TO BE EXPENSIVE. And, I think we could combine a little marquetry on the top & sides, dress up the arm board.…

And that's what I am going to try and do: Make it "perfect" and keep down the cost. Who needs another 10k turntable? I’d be willing to do that on a commission basis, but production is another thing. 3-4k is a different story. Remember, the Teres motor/platter/bearing costs $1500. The time I have spent on mine is crazy. One cannot spend that kind of time on a project and expect it to be financially feasible.

BTW, I’m locking down my arm board from the top. One knob. Easy adjustment.

Joe

Patrick,

Thank you for having the courage to post this publically, though I hope we Teres-philes have never been intimidating. I trust CB will replace the armboard with one of the proper height.

After I got your email I checked my platter and it's pretty flat. Not "perfect" of course, but closer than 1/64". I'm not sure how critical this is, virtually every record is warped by that much or more.

OTOH I quite agree about the armboard issues, since I experienced them myself. The armboard should be finished as flat and smooth as my plinth, which is so perfect it's hard to believe it's made of wood. It's also really important that its top/bottom surfaces be parallel. I had to file a burr off mine, as I told you.

Metric drill bits seem pretty obvious too. I've been posting and advising new buyers for months that Teres is drilling the wrong size hole for Rega/OL arms with a VTA collar.

I too had to buy a longer armboard bolt at Home Depot. For $3800 I suppose one should get the right length bolt. Perhaps fitting one's armboard is meant to be a reference to Teres' DIY roots? ;)

Focusedfx,

Judging by Patrick's very positive reaction to the sonics of his friend's Teres on another thread, I think his concerns stem largely from his considerable expertise as a woodworker. He understands how easy it would be for Teres to do some things even better.

FWIW, I'm still convinced that a 200 series Teres is the bargain of the decade. Except for those armboard glitches, everything about my 265 approaches world class. I got a TT that rivals or mainstream $8-12K tables for less than $4K, and a 255 may be an even bigger bargain.

AS YOU WILL NOTE THERE ARE ALOT OF RESPONSES TO YOUR POST. I AM GOING TO GET FLAMED AFTER THIS AS THE TERES CULT WILL COME LOOKING, BUT, THE TABLES ARE NOT STABLE. PERIOD.

AudiogoN HAS MANY TERES (WOOD) LOVERS, I HAVE SEEN 20 COME OUT AND RAVE ON THEIR TERES WHEN SOMEONE ASKS WHICH TABLE. I AM SURE THAT THE TABLES SOUND WONDERFUL, HOWEVER, WOOD WILL MOVE ITS ENTIRE LIFE AND THAT IS ONE OF THE BEAUTIES OF IT, but not for audio precision. DO YOU SEE ANY WOODEN ARMS, BEARINGS? MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS ON THE OTHERHAND ARE DESIGNED TO VIBRATE AND MOVE TO CREATE SOUND, THE COMBINATION OF PLEASING HARMONICS AND NATURAL BEAUTY MAKE WOOD A NATURAL CHOICE. OTHER THAN PERCEIVED BEAUTY, I CANNOT THINK OF ANY PRECISION MACHINES THAT RELY ON CELULOSE IN THE REAL WORLD.

THE PROBLEM IS VARIOUS PARTS ON THE TABLE ARE ALL MOVING AT DIFFERENT RATES ALBEIT MICRO, AND MOVEMENT IN A TABLE IS LOSS OF DEFINITION, DYNAMICS AND DYNAMIC RANGE.

BUY A WOODEN TT FOR ASTHETICS AND ITS MAJOR SHORTFALL BUT DON'T CONFUSE WOOD WITH HIGH PERFORMANCE.