Schroder sq and the new talea


I heard there was to be a fun time of learning and comparing of these two arms at the rmaf. Since the talea is relatively new, it still has to stand the test of time with comparisons on other tables, other systems and the selective and subjective tastes of discerning audiophiles! There is to be a comparison in one of the rooms at the rmaf this year, which i wasnt able to make. I would be curious to hear some judicial, diplomatic, friendly talk about how they compared to each other in the same system and room. I currently own the origin live silver mk3 with a jan allaerts mc1bmk2 and am enjoying this combo but have become curious about the more popular "superarms" Hats off to both frank and joel.

I hope this thread draws more light rather than heat. If someone preferred one arm over the other it would be OK. With all the variables it doesnt mean that much to me. What matters to me is what it sounds like to me and in my room. With that said...

What was your bias? was it for the schroder or the talea?

cheers!...
vertigo
"Once all demands are identified the design will determine itself...it is the approach of an engineer."

Dertonarm, I don't think so. If it does then you should name your tonearm Athena-- born directly from the forehead of Zeus. Since an LP is far removed from a virgin uncut master and tracking is diametric from cutting, there is really little more than force of analogy to suggest that the engineering process will be self-determined by a complete understanding of the physics embedded in an LP. I see the engineering process in this instance more as a series of differential equations that are fitted to a problem and tested at boundary conditions. The solution is revealed through an iterative process.

The diversity that we see among tonearm designs stems largely from each designer's particular assumption about which variables are key determinants. An illustration is captured in the recent thread on 12" tonearms, in which a Bob Graham citation suggests that there is a necessary trade-off between the tracing advantage of a long arm and the disadvantage of increased wand resonance and mass. IIRC Graham conceded that the 12" Phantom option was driven mostly by market considerations. If your "blue book" can build a pivot arm without any such compromises then I will be at RMAF 2011 to celebrate.
Dear Dertonarm, If you assume that some qualitys are
essential (say the ratio by humans) and the other are accidental you can not say that being biped is not accidental. This was the point made by Quine. So probable you should admit that being biped is also essential.But this way we get many 'éssences' in the same object . This is how logic works: contradictory statements will not do.
So if you still want to be Aritotelian you need to find
some other way out.
Asa very interesting to know that sheeps are no objects.

Regards,
Dear Dgarretson, apparently my words were a bit misleading. I meant that it is not just the structure of the groove, but the tracking process ( which is a synergy of several mechanic-dynamic processes taking place simultaneously ) which determines the demand profile of a tonearm.
I think that the diversity in tonarm designs is to equal parts a result of each designers individual ideas, preferences in aesthetics and materials as well as different "blue books".
I don't say that one doesn't have to make any trade-offs in a tonearm design, but that is not the problem. The problem - IMHO ...;-) .. - is, that some relevant issues of the above mentioned tracking process aren't realized nor addressed. Because there is no strictly following the topic and objective ( and thus of universal validity ) blue book for the tonearm.
And - I would neither name the tonearm Athena nor Bruenhild ( both smart daughters of pretty simple minded fathers... ) - but it isn't mine to name it anyway, as I sold the design.
Just from reading this description I can see that this book is a product of modern philosophy - it commits all the same errors. For one, the notion of something beyond reality (as perceived and understood by man's consciousness) with no evidence or argument supporting this notion, which implies that man's mind (reason) is impotent and we should blindly accept this "Being". And what does he mean when he states he wants to "transform consciousness"? Humans are entities of a specific nature - as with all entities the law of identity applies (Aristotle)to us - including our consciousness which operates by specific means (concepts) to understand reality. How is he going to "transform" that?

Canam, I recommend you try reading it before you assume that this is about philosophy. There seems to be an underlying assumption in a number of posts here that the ability to silence the mind's endless chatter ('inner dialogue' as it is often known- if it is a dialogue, to whom is the mind conversing?) is somehow the same as being unable to perceive.

Indeed, Dertonarm says:
Well, we have seen a good many politicians - each side of the Atlantic - the past years who proved themselves "true experts" in the described process to silence any thought ( in themselves...). However - if it lead to any positive results for them or us, then I missed it...... I sometimes stood frozen in absolute amazement, but that wasn't really going hand-in-hand with any positive feeling.
Which might have been an attempt at humor; its only my opinion of course but most politicians to me seem merely thoughtless, not at all what I am talking about :)

What I **am** talking about is the occasional moments when you might be driving, and come around a turn or the like, and are suddenly presented with a majestic vista of stunning beauty; or seeing for the first time a truly red tulip in spring; or hearing something of great beauty in a musical piece, wherein for an instant, the beauty of the experience is so stunning that the inner chatter of the mind shuts down, and you are allowed to be in the present, in the Now, without a worry of the future or the past. It might only be for an instant, a second or two, before the mind starts up again with something like 'wow- nice sunset!' or the like. But for a few seconds, the mind stopped its chatter (which is entirely different from the brain being somehow inactive BTW) and one is allowed to to experience the sublime.

Although not the only one to do so by any means (I used his example because it is easy to find), Eckhart Tolle presents a simple technique to allow you to experience being in the Now a little more often.

The science behind it is that if you can silence the inner dialogue (and after a while the mind seems to figure out that there is a benefit to this, so it gets easier to do), the brainwave frequency drops much like it does in meditation (hence your increased creative abilities, essential even with engineering), except that you can have your eyes open and be doing things, even be talking to a friend! This has nothing to do with philosophy or religion, BTW, nor is Mr. Tolle the only such proponent. The bottom line is though that it is simple to do and you might want to at least attempt it before dismissing it.