Separate subs for music and HT/surround

Hello DB,

     " Of course, bass associated with surround channels is likely to be ignored by the LS50s.  And so it goes."

     I think if you go into the Bryston Ayre SP3's Source Setup menu, instructions beginning on page#13 of the SP3's manual,  and configure all the LS50s as "Small" speakers, the bass will be augmented by the subs for all your LS50 surrounds. Actually, it's best if you read your SP3 manual and, starting on page#3, go through all of the  setup screens and make sure everything is set to your requirements.  
     The speaker setup menus for setting the surrounds as "Small" speakers don't begin until about page#13 but it's important you set all settings properly.  I think it also will provide optimum performance if you experiment by initially configuring the KEF Ref.1s as "Large" (run full-range with no  bass cutoff frequency) and then compare this to configuring them as"Small" (with a bass cutoff frequency as low and as close to 40 Hz as you can set it while still sounding good to you.).  This is also the menu in which you configure all LS50s and can experiment with bass cutoff frequencies as low and as close to 40 Hz as you can set it while still sounding good to you.  
     The goal is to find the settings that sound best overall to you.  Remember, since you're setting up a Custom 4-sub DBA system, you're also able to experiment with the Volume, Crossover Frequency and Continuously Variable Phase control settings on all 4 subs individually as well as collectively through the Velodyne SMS1.  Using a Custom 4-sub DBA is much more complex than the AK Swarm 4-sub DBA that I use, but it's also more flexible and able to be finely tuned to your preferences.     
     Let me know if you have any questions.  I'm glad you decided to use four subs on music and HT and believe, once all the setup and configuration process is completed, you'll be glad, too.
     I know for certain from experience that the 4-sub DBA concept works extremely well by taking advantage of the benefits of psychoacoustics and the high quality sensors and processor in the priceless audio component attached to the top of our necks.

Tim

It’s been a long time since I read the Bryston SP3 manual, except for snippets. I should follow Tim’s advice. I had forgotten that HDMI from the disc player goes to the the SP3 for audio distribution, so the SP3 will control what’s passed on to the balanced inputs of the Ayre preamp for HT.

So fellow tweekers, I have a handsome high-gloss piano-black KEF Ref 204/2C sitting in my hall that I removed because the LR speakers image so well it seemed redundant. It’s about 3.5’ long and weighs nearly 100 pounds, with a Uni-Q surrounded by four 5.5" cones. Should I reinstall that and use the NAD M22 to drive it? That would entail moving the long low equipment rack from the front to the side of the room. I’ve never tried it with the Ref 1, but I suspect being so similar it might blend even better with the Ref 1s than it did with the Ref 107.2s, and that was pretty seamless. I think the 204/2C was designed for the Ref 207.2s that also had a Uni-Q. Advice sought.

db

Hello DB,

     My opinion is that you should reinstall it just to look at that beautiful beast.  Whether you want to actually hear if it sounds as good as it looks, is completely up to you.  C'mon man, get that thing reinstalled and don't hurt yourself moving that beauty.


Tim

cleeds:
"We’ve been through this before, and you’ve been provided with authoritative references to dispel your notion that all LF is monophonic/non-directional. I’m not sure why you choose to reject the science on the directionality of LF. In particular, 100 hZ is not especially low bass, and it pretty easily localizeable."


Hello cleeds,

      I think you may have me confused with someone else, you never provided me with authoritative references to dispel my notion that all LF is monophonic/non-directional. Please provide those references again.
    In rechecking my references, I noticed that the threshold of human localization of bass sounds, due to the results of the most recent scientific research, has been lowered from 100 to 80 Hz, meaning humans are capable of localizing bass soundwaves above the updated 80 Hz threshold but are not capable of localizing bass soundwaves below this 80 Hz threshold.
    One of my references is the owner of Audio Kinesis and designer of the 4-sub Swarm DBA system, Duke LeJeune, who I recently asked on another thread to verify my understanding of in-room bass dynamics and multiple sub solutions. Below are his responses that I believe are relevant to this thread:

"@noble100 wrote: "Duke... I was hoping to get your honest opinion on my thoughts on how I understand multiple sub systems function in general as well as my understanding of how bass is recorded on CDs and vinyl."  

In general I agree with what you wrote, so let me just toss out a few comments.
" We all are unable to localize deep bass frequency soundwaves..."  

My understanding is that’s generally true in a room. The figure I use is 80 Hz, rather than 100 Hz. I think Floyd Toole uses 80 Hz. This doesn’t necessarily mean that one cannot detect the location of a sub which is crossed over significantly lower, say at 40 Hz, because crossovers are not brick walls, so upper bass/lower midrange energy can give away a sub’s location if it comes through loud enough. Therefore in my opinion a steep lowpass filter on the sub helps to hide its location.  

"the bass is summed to mono on frequencies below 100 Hz on all vinyl and cd recordings."  

I wouldn’t say "all", but I would say "almost all". (If we’re talking about a Swarm/DEBRA system, a second amp can be added to give you true stereo bass).

"Our brains are able to associate the fundamental deep bass frequencies reproduced by the subs, that are not able to be localized, with the deep bass’s higher harmonic frequencies, that extend well beyond 100 Hz, which are reproduced by the main speakers that are able to be localized. This psychoacoustic association allows us to localize the deep bass in the soundstage, for example the kick drum is located in the rear center and the upright bass is located in the front to the left, which would not be otherwise possible without this psychoacoustic association our brain’s are capable of."

I agree.  

Duke"






Here's the thread link:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/searching-for-matching-subwoofer-solution?page=2

Tim