Separate subs for music and HT/surround

It’s been a long time since I read the Bryston SP3 manual, except for snippets. I should follow Tim’s advice. I had forgotten that HDMI from the disc player goes to the the SP3 for audio distribution, so the SP3 will control what’s passed on to the balanced inputs of the Ayre preamp for HT.

So fellow tweekers, I have a handsome high-gloss piano-black KEF Ref 204/2C sitting in my hall that I removed because the LR speakers image so well it seemed redundant. It’s about 3.5’ long and weighs nearly 100 pounds, with a Uni-Q surrounded by four 5.5" cones. Should I reinstall that and use the NAD M22 to drive it? That would entail moving the long low equipment rack from the front to the side of the room. I’ve never tried it with the Ref 1, but I suspect being so similar it might blend even better with the Ref 1s than it did with the Ref 107.2s, and that was pretty seamless. I think the 204/2C was designed for the Ref 207.2s that also had a Uni-Q. Advice sought.

db

Hello DB,

     My opinion is that you should reinstall it just to look at that beautiful beast.  Whether you want to actually hear if it sounds as good as it looks, is completely up to you.  C'mon man, get that thing reinstalled and don't hurt yourself moving that beauty.


Tim

cleeds:
"We’ve been through this before, and you’ve been provided with authoritative references to dispel your notion that all LF is monophonic/non-directional. I’m not sure why you choose to reject the science on the directionality of LF. In particular, 100 hZ is not especially low bass, and it pretty easily localizeable."


Hello cleeds,

      I think you may have me confused with someone else, you never provided me with authoritative references to dispel my notion that all LF is monophonic/non-directional. Please provide those references again.
    In rechecking my references, I noticed that the threshold of human localization of bass sounds, due to the results of the most recent scientific research, has been lowered from 100 to 80 Hz, meaning humans are capable of localizing bass soundwaves above the updated 80 Hz threshold but are not capable of localizing bass soundwaves below this 80 Hz threshold.
    One of my references is the owner of Audio Kinesis and designer of the 4-sub Swarm DBA system, Duke LeJeune, who I recently asked on another thread to verify my understanding of in-room bass dynamics and multiple sub solutions. Below are his responses that I believe are relevant to this thread:

"@noble100 wrote: "Duke... I was hoping to get your honest opinion on my thoughts on how I understand multiple sub systems function in general as well as my understanding of how bass is recorded on CDs and vinyl."  

In general I agree with what you wrote, so let me just toss out a few comments.
" We all are unable to localize deep bass frequency soundwaves..."  

My understanding is that’s generally true in a room. The figure I use is 80 Hz, rather than 100 Hz. I think Floyd Toole uses 80 Hz. This doesn’t necessarily mean that one cannot detect the location of a sub which is crossed over significantly lower, say at 40 Hz, because crossovers are not brick walls, so upper bass/lower midrange energy can give away a sub’s location if it comes through loud enough. Therefore in my opinion a steep lowpass filter on the sub helps to hide its location.  

"the bass is summed to mono on frequencies below 100 Hz on all vinyl and cd recordings."  

I wouldn’t say "all", but I would say "almost all". (If we’re talking about a Swarm/DEBRA system, a second amp can be added to give you true stereo bass).

"Our brains are able to associate the fundamental deep bass frequencies reproduced by the subs, that are not able to be localized, with the deep bass’s higher harmonic frequencies, that extend well beyond 100 Hz, which are reproduced by the main speakers that are able to be localized. This psychoacoustic association allows us to localize the deep bass in the soundstage, for example the kick drum is located in the rear center and the upright bass is located in the front to the left, which would not be otherwise possible without this psychoacoustic association our brain’s are capable of."

I agree.  

Duke"






Here's the thread link:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/searching-for-matching-subwoofer-solution?page=2

Tim

I'm rethinking the sub woofer setup.  I plan to use the Bryston SP3 to manage the subwoofers, the Velodyne SMS-1 to provide acoustic room correction.  An output from the Ayre KX-5/20 preamp will go to the SP3; managed output from the SP3 will go to the SMS-1.

I don't know if Roon does surround, but the setup will be there if it does.

db