2. analog
  3. 153701-65583

SME 3009 II Unimporved -- "Thin" Sound

I would much appreciate any guidance/comments:  I am getting back into analogue after 20 years away, and had a opportunity to have a Thorens 124 and SME 3009 II Unimproved completely restored -- then set up by a knowledgeable technician.  My tech also recommended a Hana EH, which now has about 30 hours' time logged. Have tried BOTH the MM input on my Audible Illusions Modulus 3A, and the Schitt Mani into the AUX input of the Audible Illusions. Also purchased several current audiophile LP's of various genres -- for "trial" purposes.

To my ear, the result is "OK," but a bit lifeless.

Without drilling down too deeply into the physics and arm adjustments -- which I am 95% certain are correct -- can anyone enlighten me as to how I can improve. I suspect the hardware and mechanics -- given their age -- are capable of much better performance, but ... (after being accustomed to good quality digital reproduction) I am beginning to wonder if my expectations are too high!

THANKS, all!

wdesbrow
dekay's avatar
dekay
5,600 posts
 
Push...

What the OP is describing (aside from ideal cartridge loading) is an improperly set VTA.

And, once again I suggest the "simple" test I described in my previous post.

The Grado cartridge I sometimes use requires that the tail of the cartridge drag well below what the manufacturer spec'd @ the time that I purchased it (perhaps this has changed since then).

Once again, VTA needs to be set by ear once the cartridge has had enough playing time to allow the suspension to sag from it's "new" alignment.

Simply put "tail down" for decent cartridges that sound "thin" typically offers more bass/less "thinness" and a more involving sound.

I'm not a "wordsmith" as others in this thread, but I know this arm and the deck you are using and I suspect that either VTA and/or loading is the cause of your displeasure.

DeKay
tablejockey
3,916 posts
 
Schiit Mani...it's a great $150 phonostage. I used one while the tubed unit was being repaired.

A great backup phonostage for your "proper" $1K minimum(or $2K retail+ used)  This should  bring it back to life. SS or tube.

Consider original or close to presses. Table/arm/cart  are solid.
natsound401
10 posts
 
Is your SME equipped with a removeable h/s?  As I recall the 3009 Series II came both ways...I owned one in the mid 70s with an ADC XLM II that had a fixed h/s and it was very low mass...not optimal for a Hana EH.  If removable h/s, try getting another more compliant cart on it own h/s.  You can buy an Ortofon OM 10 Super and fit it with an OM-40 replacement stylus that will better represent the style of cart these arms were made to be used with, as well as giving you the Gyger stylus profile.  Of course VTA/rake angle needs to be tweaked with these.
wdesbrow OP
11 posts
 

Hi guys,

I GENUINELY appreciate the fast and thoughtful responses, and I will pursue many of your suggestions.  But I realize from your comments my information was not as complete as you would like, so allow me to fill-in some of the blanks:

1.  I bought a selection of "audiophile" test LP's most recommended by one of the VP's at Music Direct.  Among them:

Dire Straits (white cover);Holly Cole Trio ("don't Smoke in Bed" Linda Ronstadt's "Heart Like a Wheel,"  and the Master Pieces by Ellington on Columbia Masterworks, and the Paul Simon ("eskimo" cover).  all at 33-1/3.  I also have the HiFi NEws Analogue Test Album, btw.  I do have a small selection of older LP's I can try, however.

2.  I may have misled you -- I am Not trying to duplicate the sound of my digital music  -- on the contrary, just attempting to maximize the sound quality of the Thorens, Hana combination in order to taste analogue at a reasonably high level.

3.  DeKay's comments are interesting in that in looking at the arm from the side, I don't believe I have able to adjust the height so that it is 100% parallel to the record surface.  (If I adjust low enough the stylus fails to "clear" the outside lip of the typical (thick guage) record) and makes contact even when the cuing lever is in the up position.  So possibly, raising the level of the playing surface of the record is key?

4.  Tablejockey -- Not sure I understand your post (?).  I assume you are implying that the Schitt Mani is NOT up to the performance of the rest of the system???  Did you man something other?

5.  Finally -- just to be complete -- outside of the Audible Illusions preamp, I am running a David Berning tube stereo amp and floorstanding Merlin speakers -- augmented by a Aerial Acoustics sub.


Guys -- Given this additional information, I would again appreciate any further thoughts you might have!!!  VERY HELPFUL!


THANKS AGAIN.  wayne

wayne




 

tablejockey
3,916 posts
 
"Tablejockey -- Not sure I understand your post (?). I assume you are implying that the Schitt Mani is NOT up to the performance of the rest of the system??? Did you man something other? "

wdesbrow-You can get more out of your rig with an nicer phonostage.  The Schiit is a great unit. You can improve upon that, but it requires a little more $$. You will hear more "life" in your records, with a tube unit. Of course, that's my subjective opinion.

I'm a tube fan, so I would suggest a used Manley Chinook. Great reviews, I've used on in my system. Very nice if you can find a used  one for around  1//2 the retail.https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9jf95-manley-chinook-phono-stage-phono
I'd offer $15-16
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