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Speakers as the principle component/other components are servants

Speakers  hold the Kingship in our overall  audio systems. 
I think my recent posts have substaniated  this thesis, well at least my opinion of sorts.
This OP  came to me after reading  through some of (most of what is too deep for my understanding) 
pedro's 
topic
**Why is science a  starting point, yet not the end point?*
Meaning science gives us all sorts of parimeters, specs, graphs and such. Most of which we have no clue how to interpret, 
All we ae concerned is , **how does the speaker actually sound**.

Pedro suggests science has let us down, that science, if it was so intelligent, why can't science tell us which speaker is the superior and which the inferior sound???
Obvioulsy science is not the end all /be all.
Its only a  tool, human sensibilities come in  at the very end to say
Yea 
or worse
Nay
I say nay
to all/eversy xover design in the fq's ,,ohh say 800hz = 15khz.
Yeah I know thats a  massive chuck of our music.
As many of you know i make very long winded posts 
But actually I reduce them to make them more readable and so folks don't lose  interest. 
~~~So cut to the chase.
We accept high tech in every aspect of our lives.
You name it, super high tech is there,. Had you told us back in 1965, folks would be walking around with telephones, sending pics/videos,,we'd all laugh you at your face  as scifi fantasy.

~~~Long story short.

The new  wide band /high sensitivity speaker technology. What gives?
Why the denial it exists?
Why the fear to inquisite?
Why the lack of interest?
Why the rejection?

Speakers  will crown your system with beauty Or else render it as distortion/low fidelity.

Tweak/,od/upgrade all you want, at how much you care to spend $$$$$ ($40K!!!) on cables etc. 
Ain;'t going to make hardly even a  miniscle gain in sonics, if the speakers are ~~faulty~~  due to  low sensitivity.
Bass woofers, I'll grant low sens Seas and Scaspeaks high end woofers  a  stunning succcess.
Above 800hz,  I have issues with any driver neededing a  xover.
I tag these fq's with xovers. The Wet Blanket sound. Sounds mechanical, like   compressed music,, comming from a  box.
Squeezed, contorted, tiny soundstage, strained fq's  if vol is over 10 oclock. = fatigue/Coloration  in abundance.  
Many fq's of the source, missing in action. 
I am not suggesting  these new wide band is for everyones taste. Not at all. Only that we should at least give these wide band a   consideration as a  possible alternative to our old  traditional ideas.

Inqusisitiveness is a good thing in  all things audio. 
Without  a  healthy  curiousity, we putrefy , stagnate.
 Even  Worse
we might miss out on the super high fidelty we all hope to hear one day in our systems by this neglect  of the new high technology in speaker design. . 

.


 
mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 

manogolf14 posts07-07-2021 2:38pmWatched a YouTube video on the Voxativ site that led to another video touring the facility where their products are made. They are working on two and three way designs for future offerings. My guess is they will employ crossovers.
Yes the tour is amazing, UNREAL. Did you see how super light weight the papyrus cone material.. WOWW, Super light cone meets super powerful neo magnet = Nuclear explosion. 

OK well, if they bring in some xovers in  a  new design, I have no issues, None whatsoever. 
As the sensitivity will still be high. 
Its xovers + low sensitivity = distortion/coloration = anti-musical anti-high fidelity, This is my issue with vandersteen/Thiels and the rest of that bunch, 
Yes Iconoclast. 
Been some time since i  used that word. 
I am The Iconoclast.
I bet Voxativ comes out witha  10  incher. You watch. 
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 

mammothguy54470 posts07-07-2021 2:59pm@mozartfan I am curious about your system. What is it that you have for speakers and all of the support front-end gear? I don’t see your system posted on your Agon page, so please, enlighten me (us).

With much respect.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Well it was Adam over at modisound who mention, **Wow, you are building some kind of Frankenstein*.
Yep The Frankenstein,
He came out my lab due toa huge disappointment with my expensive Mundorf cap upgrade to the Millennium, I figured the result would be a Super tweeter like no other, Only small nuances was the result.
Ok, Jadis Defy7
, Had my tech swap out the old Jadis wires for navships silver/copper navy/Aero space high tech wiring(NICEEE).
Mundorf(made by F&T) SESGO caps on the 12 tubes, + nice F&T’s in other areas of the Defy.
The Philips caps inside and on top, these are worth their weight in pure Gold, 
Takman Rey metal resistors throughtouut system. Gains? have to wait for the Wide band, I’d say Takman Rey’s are the best bang for the buck resistors.
I HATE carbon resistors,
Lets see, what else, Jadis DAC JS2/mark2,
Jadis DPL
Mundorf caps throughout both units. Evo Silver’s.
Speakers are the Thors minus the Millennium tweeter.
Replaced witha DavidLouis 4 inch wide band and a KASUN double magnet 91db 3.5 inch paper cone tweeter/Mundorf 2.2 Silver oil supreme.
W18E001’s 40hz-800hz
David louis 4 inch  80hz-12khz, maybe higher, not sure the rolloff.
Paper cone tweeter, like 9khz - maybe 15khz.
Not sure.
The speakers make this system work, I can not stand muddy/coloration in the 1k-6khz range.
My 1981 purchase of the Philips High Fidelity labotories 375 2 way, the tweeter set the Gold Standard.
My tech geek believes the same, independently of my opinion.
However, i don’t like domes, the surface area voicing is too tiny.
He made me aware of the nice performance of paper cone tweeters, His paper cones in the Realistic Nova 7 (Bs?) are ok, in fact quite good,
’I think my KASUN double magnet’s trump his $3 paper cones.
I have no complaints about the KASUN paper cone tweeter, It does exactly what a good tweeter is suppose to do.
Took me some time to find that lil guy. Only 1 seller has it.
Anyway, I think the sysytem is near completion.. I ’m broke now, But worth it.
;-))
rixthetrick's avatar
rixthetrick
1,060 posts
 
A good design is one that is voiced properly and that does not necessarily mean using more expensive parts.
@ larryi - That could easily be a direct quote from my previous employer, and it's something we absolutely agree upon.
mammothguy54's avatar
mammothguy54
951 posts
 
@mozartfan  The posts are very long and maybe I missed something.  What I did read suggested that you are less than enchanted with most everything available today.  Thus, I inquired of what it is that you have for a system.  I really was sincere about that.  If I have misinterpreted any of your posts I sincerely apologize.

Nevertheless, I appreciate that you are interested in what my system consists of.  Well, I have  had a few very nice ones over my lifetime.  I retired from the workforce about 3 years ago and after dealing with a total hip replacement I decided to create a better system for my retirement years.  Ultimately I will post pictures on my Agon page, now that I am mostly done with building the system.  I still need to build a digital front end.  For now, I am happy to provide you with a list of the components.
Note; there are a lot of great components on the market and there are a lot of great systems that are far better than mine.  However, I am very satisfied with the outcome of what I have assembled over these past 2 years.

Turntable   Rega Planar 10
Cartridge   Lyra Delos (soon to upgrade to a Hana, Umami Red)
Phono stage  Manley Chinook
Preamp   Balanced Audio Technology VK-33SE
Amp        Balanced Audio Technology VK-90T (new model, just released)
Subwoofer  REL S-812
Speakers   Dynaudio Contour 60i
Dedicated 20 amp circuit for the system
Power conditioner   Audioquest, Niagara 3000
Signal cables   Audioquest, Earth
Power cables  Audioquest, Tornado (High-Current and Source)
Speaker cables  Audioquest, William Tell Zero
Equipment rack  Symposium Acoustics, Foundation Rack Ultra
Ampstand   Symposium Acoustics, Ultra Pro Stealth Edition
Vibration control   Symposium Acoustics, Rollerblock Jr HDSE (under all components, including subwoofer) 

There are plenty of great ones out there, but this one sounds very good to me (and pushed me to my financial limits).  I'm not yet certain of what to do for a digital front end, but ultimately I'll get there.  Vinyl has been the main source for my entire life.
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
You know I have been disparaging, over critical of xover designs to the point of nausea.
A condemantion which most fully have earned due not to their bass, nor highs, Its is the 1k-6k hz’s where they have miserably failed.
All , every single top name brand, A-Z have sounded like crocking frongs in certain mid band widths.
Yet not all deserve this trashing.
Have you guys taken a close look at Troels Gravesens designs.
Pricey, but definetly top designs of alll xover types. Commercial labs can’t even approached Troel’s designs.
I note Troels says some of his designs are 91 db efficient,
If this is true, then his designs will compete with these new wide band speakers.
When you add all things up, the new wide band wins the contest. 
For many reasons over Troels top designs. 


My Q is this, How can Troels acheive 91 db efficiency, when the 3 Seas drivers he uses are all rated below 90db??
anyone?
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO-4.htm
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