Speakers for a 12 x 13 room

Thanks all. I have an array of bass traps that would make Ethan Winer of Real Traps proud. The room was designed using an array of software solutions. I have bass traps all over the place per my original post.

Duke, you hot the nail right on the head. I do plan on using two subs that are eq'd after using ETF software to tune the optimal Q and attenuation settings to give me a nice smooth response. The fact that we share a similar line of thinking makes me very interested in your products.

The pre/pro idea, respectfully, will not work.

I'm off to hear the Compact 7 and P3ES tomorrow. Hopefully the dealer will have Monitor 30's for comparison sake as well.

I'm also going to listen to the Reynaud Bliss from my old friend Bob Neill who has always given me sage advice in the past.

I tell ya, buying new really gets a bad rap. Buying used is great, but I never felt comfortable using dealers time and not buying something from them. Buying new allows me to compare and know that I have heard it all. Never having to second guess your choices is priceless.

In that small of a room, you have far more things to consider than just bass nodes:

1. You'll need more acoustic treatments than just bass traps. Consider some serious absorption behind your listening position, and at the first reflection points on the side walls. In a small room, diffusion doesn't cut it.

2. Your speakers need to sound best near-field and on-axis. Off-axis response can be considered either irrelevant or detrimental. It really depends on how well your room is treated.

3. Your speakers (and your associated equipment) need to be able to resolve at very low volumes. Some speakers (and amps) sound best when "the juice gets flowing". In a small room, you'll want your system to sound great with just a drip.

4. Duke nailed it on the head regarding multiple subs in a small room. Two small subs may seem like overkill - it's not.

As you can probably guess, I've gone through this process before. Check out my system to see my equipment choices.

take a listen to the totem mani

@Nrenter- You and I have both done this before haven't we? :) Thanks for the tips.

If I could return the favor, you should really add some more bass traps in the room specifically at the ceiling to wall junctures. It will really help you with standing waves under 60Hz in your room. Have you used any ETF software to see what your system's low end frequency response really is? Ponying up for such software (available for Macs and PCs) was one of the wisest investments I have made in my system. Without said software you're just guessing at treating a room. The radio shack meter and test discs are toys. They can't be trusted to give fine enough gradations to make any determinations other than gross guesses.

I am going to look into your subs as well. I would prefer a DIY sealed box enclosure. A pair, as you indicate, is a must. But an equal must is a parametric EQ. You have to get one for your room. It makes even average subs outperform the priciest. It really is the only way to smooth out the bass response in a small room like ours (for one seating position at least). Thanks for your thoughts.
Vik

PS- I'm hearing such great things about Ayre products. I'll have to ask my dealer about it. I've been sold on Audio Note, Shindo and Leben these last few months. He's had Ayre just sitting there this whole time and I haven't even asked him about it (save for their new DAC which he raves about).

I haven't added treatments up-high primarily for aesthetic reasons. However, I have no doubt they would have a positive impact. While my room sounds good in the seated (listening) position, it's unbearable in the standing position (where your ear is just above the treatments). Since I (literally) only listen in one position, I haven't made an effort to do any more.

While I haven't updated my system description to indicate my approach, I'm using my subs as a converse parametric eq (not sure if that accurately describes it, though). I'm using one sub to create destructive interference at the room's resonance frequency (around 50 Hz), and then using the second sub to fill in the lower end (under 40 Hz). I use 1-Hz incremental test tones and set by ear. I'd be interested to see if ETF package would confirm my settings.

I bought the ML subs out of impatience and cheapness. I really wanted small REL subs, but didn't want to wait for them (or pay for them).

I love my Ayre gear, particularly with my GMA speakers. If you're willing to take a risk, you may want to consider the GMA Rio speakers (and if you really want to take a risk, the GMA Eos HD). The Ayre DAC is on my want list (after the Ayre L-5xe power conditioner).