2. speakers
  3. 166005-136265

Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
Richard Gray  finally wrote me about pairing the  Voxativ's  Ac1C driver with the Jadis Defy7 mark2, 100 wattts channel, 12 Kt88's, its a beast of a amp. 
1st Ricahrd tells me quite often past 8 months, the Thors are <,the wrong speaker for the Defy>>> , 
now he tells me the Vox high sens is not the <<ideal/right? speaker for the Defy.
I just wrote Ricahrd, <Look we only have 2 choices, box/xover low sens or FR high sens>>
Then he says the Vox single will requirea  large cabinet, as i told him i will build mid size, lighter weight.
He says not doing. 
I can see Vox has small bookshelf speakers, not sure the size, maybe 6.5 driver.
anyway. 
Richard is throwing road blocks in my path to the Vox project. 
I need to havea  long discussion at his shoop there on Jeff Hwy, acoss from Oschner Hospital, monay, He is only open mon-wednesday.
We are going to get to the bottom of this speaker mis-match thing.
If anyone has experience in this matching tube + speaker please chime in.
Richard says the match is the SET amps, 
Vox has one, like $20k-$30k can't recall price, She's a beaute.
But I have no cash for another amp. 
I'm part german and bull headed, I am going Vox for either success or ~~~disaster~~~~
Thing is, I have the chinese Diatone 6./5 and find it very pleasing, and could  easily live with that driver + a TI Horn, with no complaints. 
But I'm looking for more. and @ $2k, its attainable. 
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
Maybe Richard can loan one of his SET amps, and compare to Defy7, If SET wins out I'll buy Ricahrd's SET, and dump the glorious Defy7 with all new Mundorf SESGO + F&T caps. New  navships internal silver wiring. New copper speaker posts. 
NOT selling on the cheap. She'll be priced mid level. ain't gonna take a  hit. 
murphythecat
181 posts
 
yeah, I think OP’s opinion is valid in many ways.
Wideband/FR speakers do things in the midrange/treble that no multiways can achieve. The transition and transients with the mid to treble is just unique in character.
however, I dislike large format wideband (4 to 6.5 inch wideband are the best) and so they are extremely limited in the bass, cannot go loud and since wideband use very light cone and weak magnets, the bass they make is truly subpar next to a 12 inch based 3 way for example.

I’m listening right now to a pair of Fostex ff105wk that ive implemented in a minimus enclosure.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/inspired-by-the-chinese-abomination-thread-h...
These roll off around 110hz, ive added a REL T5 sub and yeah, there’s magic there in the mid that my SEAS A26 cannot match. but they sound anemic when played loud, not as even in frequency response in the treble and the bass is definitely weaker vs the A26.

as for the discussion about room acoustic being king, i disagree. and my room is fully treated. a well treated room wont make a P3ESR sound like a harbeth 40.1. room acoustic is extremely critical for good sq and one cannot get best SQ without proper early reflection treatment and bass traps ect, but speakers are the most important tool

PS: im quite confused by the Voxativ hype. The frequency response is average at best. I feel like audiophile community look at the prices and automatically assume Voxativ are the best cause they are extremely highly priced.
cough cough
https://www.stereophile.com/content/voxativ-ampeggio-loudspeaker-measurements

wouldnt want them if they were given to me
pesky_wabbit's avatar
pesky_wabbit
1,183 posts
 
@mozartfan you state:.
Maybe Richard can loan one of his SET amps, and compare to Defy7, If SET wins out I’ll buy Ricahrd’s SET, and dump the glorious Defy7 with all new Mundorf SESGO + F&T caps. New navships internal silver wiring. New copper speaker posts. NOT selling on the cheap. She’ll be priced mid level. ain’t gonna take a hit. R
Hows about a true Loftin-White with NO CAPS in the signal path to mess things up. Design elegance always trumps boutique components. i‘m available.......

And by the way, you haven‘t addressed any of the issues I have raised.
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,011 posts
 
as for the discussion about room acoustic being king, i disagree. and my room is fully treated. a well treated room wont make a P3ESR sound like a harbeth 40.1. room acoustic is extremely critical for good sq and one cannot get best SQ without proper early reflection treatment and bass traps ect, but speakers are the most important tool
You speak about passive room treatment...

There exist also Active room treatment that use tubes and pipes resonators in a precise distribution to complement powerfully the passive treatment...They work by conveying the timing wavefronts of sounds coming from each speaker to each ear...

And nobody can contradict the fact that speakers is important and everybody know that ...

acoustic on the contrary is completely underestimated.... especially with people owning very costly speakers...

And acoustic can transform good average speaker in a better experience... with my mechanical equalizer made of resonators i control imaging,  timbre, soundstage, listener envelopment etc...


More to discover