Subwoofer Amplifier Guidance
Present Equipment.
Audio Research Classic 60 Amp.
Audio Research LS5 MK III (Running Unbalanced).
ProAc Response 2.5 Speakers.
Two REL Storm III Subs.
Turntable and Primarily Vinyl Playback.
Room is ASC Tube Trap Treated per ASC recommendations.
I was very close to buying a Rythmik F12 (12" Sealed) to run solely since one of my REL Storm III Subs is malfunctioning. My intent was if the Rythmik F12 was satisfactory to me then I would add a second F12. Connection would be from the ARC Classic 60 Amp Speaker Taps to the Rythmic F12 Speaker Level Inputs (High Level Input).
Unfortunately, I was stopped cold when I read this on the Rythmik Website and then talked to Brian the Owner of Rythmik who does not recommend that I proceed. Brian went so far as to say that I should repair the REL Storm III;
" Tube power amplifier issue. If your power amplifier is tube-based, then speaker level input method has one additional drawback. Tube power amplifiers are known to have low damping factor (DF). Low DF means the frequency response from tube power amp is highly load dependent. If one connects to 5 different speakers, it gives you five different frequency response curves at the power amplifier output (whereas solid state power amps produces same power amp output regardless speaker impedance). Sonically bass has always been the weakness of tube power amps with bass often perceived as sloppy and under-controlled. Stereophile has been publishing deviation of FR using their pseudo speaker load when reviewing tube power amplifiers. The plots show wavy frequency response. If one uses the tube power amp output to drive subwoofer inputs, the same sloppy/ill-controlled bass from the front speakers will transfer to subwoofer and also make subwoofers sound sloppy and under-controlled. That certainly is not the best way to achieve good bass.
5) Can lead to damage when connecting to a fully complementary class-D power amplifier. Our speaker level inputs are designed with single-ended power amplifier outputs in mind. "Single-ended" means the red speaker terminal (+) carrys hot signal and black terminal (-) is true ground. Accidentally touching the black terminals from both channels will not lead to amplifier damage. Some class-D power amplifiers are single-ended while the majority are fully complementary which means the black terminals at the back of power amplifiers are not true ground. Instead, the black or (-) terminal has an opposite polarity of the red or (+) terminal. Accidentally touching the black terminals from both channels can lead to amplifier damage ".
I have been happy with the REL Storm III’s since new and I do not expect perfection but rather like the bottom end boost.
They are tucked in behind the ProAc Speakers and my thought was to try a different location with the sole Rythmik F12 using the Speaker Level Inputs on the Rythmic from the Amp.
I have been so far removed from what is out there that I am looking for Options and if it is feasible to use 1 of my 2 Pre Outs to run a Solid State Amp for the Rythmik F12 Sub solely.
I am not getting rid of the Amp and the appearance of the present REL Subwoofers is a little off-putting to me with the High Glass & REL Emblazed everywhere. I would much rather order some Subs from BK Electronics in the UK versus the present REL finishes.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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+1 @noromance I've been running Rel subs from my tubed amps for 12-14 yrs now with no problem They sound great I had Rel Storm 3 but they didn't have enough power back then for my size room. It still sounded good but the new ones are better. My new ones have 550 watts. |
If you select one of the two XLR versions of the Rythmik plate amp in the F12 you purchase, you can connect it to the balanced output of your ARC LS-5. One benefit of doing so is the interconnect can be as long as you want or need. The non-XLR versions of the Rythmik amp allow for both high-level and line-level connections, the XLR versions line-level only. Though REL (and many here) think high-level connection is "the best", Rythmik’s Brian Ding disagrees. Why add the well-known imperfections of a tube amp’s output transformers to the signal you send the plate amp? The idea that driving both your speakers and your subs off the power amp’s output transformers will make them blend better is one I am opposed to philosophically, even if true. That's like lowering the standards in grading so no one flunks ;-) . |
Dear @djohn " if it is feasible to use 1 of my 2 Pre Outs to run a Solid State Amp for the Rythmik F12 Sub solely. "
That's the way to use that self powered subs. You don't need other amp, the subs comes with a dedicated amp.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Thank You! for all of your comments and it appears that I have another phone call to make to Rythmik. I like the Pre Out idea/ability and I just need to ask about the cabling connections since I have never done it this way before. I have close to 40 Feet of Cable Run to make and I want to make sure before ordering the supplies. Without calling out individual commentators I would like to note the following; @noromance Strata III was very similar to the Storm III and you and I both know what we paid for them, which was way too much, compared to what is available today. I discovered a year ago about the R8 Resistor Issue which put a very bad taste in my mouth especially when I called around to try and find someone to repair it. It does not make sense to repair it at $300.00 plus. I am fortunate that it is still running but it is Intermittent at times so I can hang on a little longer before trashing a beautiful Cherry Cabinet. My first choice is the Rythmik and unfortunately I cannot stand the High Gloss on the REL's. However, if I could ever get past that, your recommendation for 2 - T7X's is spot on. @bdp24 I love reading your writings in the Forums but unfortunately Rythmik is out of the XLR Units. I will call Brian and ask him if it is worth waiting for and if it is feasible with my Pre in the Unbalanced Mode continuously. I am XLR to RCA for the Amp and RCA to XLR for my Phono Stage.
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Over a decade ago a friend was certain the Studio III was the bomb. His local dealer allowed a short in home audition. With a JL Audio and my Velodyne on hand he decided to go with two Velodyne's and save a few bucks. IME I'd wait for the XLR to XLR. Cables are available at Guitar Center or Blue Jeans Cable for custom length. |
