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Subwoofer Decisions - REL/Rythmik, Pair/Single, Paper/Aluminum Driver, etc.

I have decided to upgrade my subwoofers. I have a 15x12 room with an open side wall that I use for 2 channel and HT. Two channel music performance is the priority. We don’t listen to either very loud or need the room to shake. I am considering the REL S/510 and the Rythmik F12, F12G, FM8, L22 and E22. I have an all Linn vintage system. My speakers are Aktiv by installing special crossover cards in the 5 channel Class V amp. It outputs to the speakers in a bi-wire configuration. If I used a high level speaker connection I guess I would have to tie into the speaker wires connected to the Bass/Mid card.

Any thoughts on Rythmik v REL? You seem to get a lot more for your money with Rythmik and they also offer more options - finish, sizes, configurations, etc. Supporting a Texas based business is also nice. Do they offer equal or better quality and performance? There seem to be many fans that think so.

Any thoughts on Rythmik’s paper v aluminum drivers? The owner says that the aluminum driver retains its shape faster and is more detailed. He recommended the aluminum in my system over the paper even for 2 channel. The paper is lighter and has better extension above 80Hz. I’ve also heard that it is better at low volumes because it easier to move. My current subs have paper drivers and paper seems to be greatly preferred in the audiophile community.

Any thoughts on pair v single sub in my size room? One 10 or 12 is probably enough to pressurize the room but will a pair of dual 8 or 12’s make everything easier and better? Is there a point where they will overwhelm the room?

Things are pretty tight in my room so the smaller footprint of the vertically stacked FM8 and L22/E22 are appealing. Also stacked drivers look badass right? The FM8 with its dual 8 inch drivers will probably be faster than the larger 10 and 12 models. It also appears to go plenty low enough to keep up for basic HT needs. The L22/E22 have a smaller footprint than the single driver F12 but I’m concerned that those might be overkill.

High level speaker connection? REL recommends it. Rythmik offers it but recommends using other methods. Anyone know if using it with a Class V amp and tying it only to the bass/mid speaker output will perform well? I’m not sure how REL implements its filters to make this work. Is the high level connection really better in performance?

Thanks for the help.
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hilde45's avatar
hilde45
4,974 posts
 
Quick update -- the Rythmiks work beautifully, and the extra controls on them were very helpful for adjusting them to the room. I have kept the REL also, and it’s now adding something to the mix as a third sub, further away in the room. Adjustable phase is really valuable, and this was proved beyond a doubt both in measurements and in how it all blends in listening. There is no peak or dip greater than 6 db and mostly much less. My room has 6.5 ft. ceilings, so this is a major accomplishment for me.

P.S. Ascend Acoustics, the Rythmik dealer I used, were great to deal with.
char2
23 posts
 
I am frustrated by the quality control of Rythmiks speakers AND also their  customer support. I received a Rhythmic 12 sub a year ago and the power connector was damaged and did not work!!!!! After a couple of back and forths with the company (where they claimed it was a faulty power cord) it was not the power cord it was the IEC socket. I just gave up. The sub works as long as I do not move the sub 1 inch either way. I dont know what to do BECAUSE I have tried to contact the company numersous times and all I get is a delayed e mail....power cord on the way.
I have no purpose in dissing the company in fact I was led to believe by the Cable Company that Rhythmik was superior to Rel (most of the time).
I have no suggestions at this time...but I am not going to bite the bullet and pay for me sending the sub back!!!!!
ericrhodes1's avatar
ericrhodes1
2 posts
 
Yes
musicaddict
370 posts
 
With MC and others, I have to recommend going with as many small decent subs as you can instead of one expensive sub. Minimum: try for two good 10” or 12” models. The distributed bass array concept works, and very well; it’s science. I just moved out a great REL B1 and moved in three SVS units (two SB-2000s, one SB-3000) and the bass and openness is better; I’m not going back. I’d like a fourth.

And, there are a lot of very good high-performance inexpensive subwoofers out in the market today like Rhythmik, HSU, SVS, plus the higher priced RELs J&Ls, etc. I’d consider 2-4 of good $600-?00 subs, seriously.

Unless you have amplifier concerns I’d not worry about high-passing unless your mains need that high pass. For higher volume playback it might be beneficial to keep energy away from main woofers possibly. My mains run unimpeded and all subs are low passed at 50Hz (with low volume). The increased ‘air’ is wonderful.

Sorry if that wasn’t what you wanted. After fiddling for 40 years with sub ‘specs’ and technical BS I now realize the DBA concept totally runs that old thinking out of town (at least in my own practical experience, and like that of many others).


musicaddict
370 posts
 
Golfnutz, I forgot to respond to your excellent comments on plopping and ‘hearing’ one’s way to good bass.

As regards plopping, based on the DBA concept one merely needs good asymmetrical positioning around the room. Of course more adjusting could be done, ad infinitum I suspect. Sometimes you do your best and call it a day. I’m already happier without going wild on positioning, yet…

And my ears did not adjust the bass levels. I wanted the flattest, lowest bass possible with no humps or exaggerations so I ran lots of frequency sweeps down to 20Hz in 1/3 octaves and dialed it all in without my ear. That gave me a pretty flat bass down past 31Hz.

The true ‘proof is in the pudding’ moment was when I played the first track (Signe) off of Eric Clapton’s “Unplugged” album with the three sub-woofers dialed in. For the first time I noticed the air pumping or chuffing coming from something on-stage just past the two minute mark. I was amazed as it was so soft and so low in tone I barely picked it up. Now I know it is there. An ‘ah hah’ moment.


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