T+A PA 3100HV vs Pass Labs X350.8

The T+A is on the warm or neutral side? Is it warmer or more neutral than the Pass combo?

@mrrui

I’ll sidestep your question, somewhat... : )

Warmth and neutrality are subjectively defined and experienced at an individual level. Not knowing where you fall, and whether we have overlap in the spectrum...a direct answer only applies to me. If you were to push me on it, I’d say the T+A is both warm enough and neutral enough... which some (many) would label as contradictory.

Now, my focus in comparisons is on realism and naturalism. Both, of course, are also individually defined and experienced (as above) but they are higher level / holistic criteria (for me). I’m looking for a summation and synthesis, not reduction.

The T+A delivered a more realistic and natural presentation, and as a result provided me with greater engagement and emotion than my Pass amp. The Pass amp sounded "hazy" and "grey" and "slower" in direct and relative comparison. In other words, the T+A provided a clearer and more transparent soundscape. Some would say it "gets out of the way" more effectively. T+A’s high current design / approach also allows for greater control of the music, yet with a very nuanced and light touch. To summarize, the T+A sounded more "correct and right" in comparison to my Pass amp, within my then system.

I’ll also mention an issue that’s become much more central to how I evaluate / think about components. In this case, I believe it best to consider the amplifier > speaker cable > speaker as one and a fundamental section of the system [in which the entire system+room is the ’component’ being evaluated]. Therefore, how each amp behaves with the speaker cable and speakers you are using may result in different outcomes and ultimately your preference.

@david_ten The T+A is on the warm or neutral side? Is it warmer or more neutral than the Pass combo? I would audition them at the shop on Dynaudio speakers but it will be difficult to make the right judgement because many factors (time,...). Hope you can gave me some more information bout how they sound. Thank you.
@dep14 I have excluded the C2700 because I don't need the DAC. Now I strongly consider the C22 Mk V or all the way up to the C1100. My local dealer will restock those preamps next month and I hope the covid thing is under control by then to audition them.

@pennpencil
What was the difference between the X250.8 and 350.8?
I am considering the 260.8 monos, any experience with those?

@mrrui You are welcome.

@hegelsjh You are welcome.

Pass [also] didn’t recommend aftermarket power cords, though they have moved somewhat on that position. : )

Power cords will also bring improvements. In my experience / experimentation, the upside delta from the power supply / conditioner was higher than that from power cords. However, I recommend both to get the most out of your Pass amps.

Your post caused me to revisit some of the statements made by Nelson Pass about not using power conditioners with his amps.

@david_ten I would re-audition the T+A and ask if the shop could bring it to my home for short demo after the social distancing. Thank you.
@dep14 I would also consider your suggestion. C2700 is sure a nice piece and I would save a lot if I go this route. Just curious because I have auditioned the C2700 on different set up at the shops and didn't have time to make a fair judgement about it.

I have the x250.8 and love it. I heard a difference between it and the 350.8. If you can, compare the two before choosing.

86 dB sensitive speakers in that 4 to 6 ohm range, and a good sized floor stander at that.  I bet that Revel speaker needs a high current amp to drive it.  From my *general* listening experience, Pass Labs amps, especially the dot five and dot eight series bring the dynamic goods to the table.  Plus, the air, space, layer separation, and that wonderful midrange bloom that lights music from within with Pass equipment is good stuff.  I've listened to some Mc gear, and while it seems pretty good to me, it seems to have a little bit more laid back character; it is not bad to say the least.  I think getting a 350.8 will solve your problems as that amp doubles to 700 wpc at 4 ohms.  That's some beans right there.  In my experience, Pass amps can be picky, and there is definitely a synergy that comes to life when a Pass line stage is paired with a Pass amp.  While this might be apples and oranges with your situation, I have Pass Aleph 1.2s paired with a X0.2 three box Pass line stage behind it and it's glorious; prior to the X0.2, I had a Sonic Frontiers Line 2 behind the Aleph 1.2s.  While it sounded *okay*, even with getting some more expensive tubes from Upscale Audio (when he ran it [the business] out of his house...), it still did not *pop* like equipment of that caliber should.  When I sprung for the then newly inrtro'd X0.2s, and let it burn-in, holy Moses, it's like someone pulled off a veil and those big Class A monos made my Von Schweikert VR6s sing and soar very high!  I mention my experience because you have an Anthem (the old Sonic Frontiers) line stage and you are thinking about getting a 350.8 Pass amp.  In any case, happy hunting as the saying goes.  

Thanks David!  Your post caused me to revisit some of the statements made by Nelson Pass about not using power conditioners with his amps.  On second reading, he is just urging caution in choosing the right one to not suppress dynamics.    


david_ten4,439 posts06-06-2021 6:33pm@hegelsjh It was the Synergistic Research PowerCell UEF SE (Black Outlets) with the Galileo UEF AC Cord. [2018 version]

Interesting. I love Pass labs, and had the chance to A/B my 250.8 with my now current MC462 along with a C2700 pre-amp. My speakers are very flat measuring, and somewhat demanding like yours.

While there were differences between the 462 and 250.8... they were very small.

The c2700 however, made a much bigger difference in my systems sound. (I had a XP22). I like the built in DAC, and for ME, I dig what the tubes did.

Frankly, I would consider trying a different 2 channel pre-amp with your 462 (I love my 2700 and the built in DAC) before moving from a 462 to the 350.8.

All are excellent, just depends on the flavor you want. For ME, I really dig the McIntosh combo (and I really enjoyed the XP22/250.8 combo also).

@hegelsjh It was the Synergistic Research PowerCell UEF SE (Black Outlets) with the Galileo UEF AC Cord. [2018 version]

@david_ten 
What power conditioner are you using to improve the performance of the Pass Labs amp?

@mrrui  I compared the T+A PA 3100 HV and the Pass Labs XA 30.8 in my own system, over an extended period. I own both amps.

My system and room are obviously different than yours, and what we prefer and require may differ as well.

I preferred the T+A PA 3100 HV to my Pass 30.8 by a significant margin.

If you go the Pass route, I highly recommend a power supply / conditioner. The power conditioner I purchased (after I made the switch to the T+A) greatly improved the sonic performance of my XA 30.8 amplifier.

The power conditioner also pushed the performance of the PA 3100 HV upwards, though not to the same extent as I experienced with the XA 30.8

In either scenario (without the power conditioner AND with the power conditioner), I prefered the T+A...again in my system per my preferences and needs.

All the best with your choice.