I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
I will be using an Yggdrasil DAC, a Freya preamp, and Vidar amps to go along with DI speakers. If I am using two Vidar amps, I will be running balanced differential interconnects from DAC to amps.
My speakers are suppose to ship at the end of the week. This a week late, but I don't have the amps yet so it is no big deal.
I believe that the excellent sound I am getting from my best lp's is partially due to the high gain of my Sound-Smith Voice cart. At any rate,
I do believe this to be true,but you probably are right at the level of having just enough overall system gain to make it work out with the Brilliance speakers.You defiantly don't want to use a cart. with any lower gain but I'm sure you know this.
I think you do have some valid questions but I can't really answer them,so I will try some speculation.
Some guys are using the MZ2 as a Intergrated and or a preamp and some guys have different brand Intergrateds which Offcourse don't mostly need a preamp.Both of us probably agree that a quality preamp in the chain is a very important link related to synergy of the whole system.
You mentioned also about discussion on source components and I agree that there is been very little info.I look at that as most users of the DI's already have a quality front end either digital or analog and are kinda set using what sounds good to them,but source components can also equate into the whole of Synergy.
I used to be a big analog guy and still have a big collection of lps but honestly in the last 5 yrs or so,mainly due to today's Dac's being so darn good I find myself only playing records that I don't have digital files of or records that just simply are better recordings than the digital files I do have.
I still own 2 complete analog rigs but I do have 3 different Dac's in the mix.
It just occurred to me that our discussions on this thread are heavily weighted towards amplifier pairings with the Double Impacts, and to a lesser degree the preamplifier; and specifically optimal outcomes with respect to both component types.
There has been some discussion of source components, but in terms of a weighted average very low coverage of the front end.
I find this very interesting and am curious as to why this may be the case. Thoughts?
Kenny: Colin told me that they keep the declared value at $299 and, so, the customs people do not check it. He also promises to meet his 2-week deadline.
BTW, just got a Bohemian SACD of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances (Fischer/Budapest Phil) AND, for the second time, heard the DIs do something I had not heard before. Heard live, the Dances have this guttural power in the low-mid and bass regions that I can best describe as "Slavic rumble." The DIs reproduce this sound eerily accurately. Have never heard this quality reproduced in another speaker. Kudos once again to Eric...
Hi Kenny, Thanks for your very insightful comments. You certainly have much direct listening experience with quite a lot of high quality components and speakers. Your impression of the Magico sound concur with mine. Impressive in the Hifi realm but for me they just lack expressing the emotion, communication and humanity inherent in good music.IMO there isn’t soul or breath of life presentation which I find mandatory. for music listening. I do acknowledge that some consider Magico the pinnacle of speaker design. To each their own. Charles
I recently did an install for a guy using the Nords. They are pretty impressive sounding SS Class D amps for the money. Very detailed and very controlled bass. He opted for the warmer richer sounding sparkos op-amps for his One-Up SE monoblocks, but IMHO I wouldn't call the sound warm at all when compared to valves, but maybe compared to the Sonic Imagery op-amps they might be. I have no frame of reference. In hindsight, I maybe should have recommended the Benchmark AHB2 amp as a slightly better, but more expensive option, but the guy is 76 with hearing aids and his wife was nonplussed about the nuances of audiophilia. He did tell me his wife and daughter’s family visited from out of town and they had a blast until 2am listening to the amplifiers and the Klipsch RF-7IIS I had sold him after I received my DI’s.
+10 pts for working into the conversation a brief mentioning of the DIs in an otherwise irrelevant digressive post.
Reviewers talk uniformly about how good the bass response is with Class D and we shall see. Am able to make adjustments with Apqualizr.
I don't think you will need any adjustments in the bass department, The Nord will deliver the deepest,tightest,most controlled bass of any other Class d amp that I have heard.Can be a touch dry depending on what you pair with them in the rest of your system and or what kinda bass that a person may be used to with other equipment.
Good for you and I hope the Nord works out for you.
I can see your dilemma with the size of your room overall,we moved 3 yrs ago to a smaller house,our old big house had a 30x40x20 foot living room and we also had a 20x25x9 music room were my wife claimed I spent way to much time,LOL.
I'm curious if you had to pay any extra import or duty fees.
Have you read the long thread on another website about the Nords, I can't recall which one it is.
That is one quality that many different users with different equipment and room size have in common,Is the DI's can deliver the goods in music low volumes to high volumes and still retain their excellent sound characteristics,not many speakers that I have heard or owned in my 31yrs in this hobby can pull that on off.
Kenny: Once again, thanks and also this shows, once again, how this thread continues to work for those interested in informed responses.
Have heard back from Colin and ordered the Nord Stereo with both of the available op amps. Hope that one or the other will provide the kind of sound ideal perfect for my DIs.
Your room is large, but not quite the space I have: 20X22 with 14 feet ceilings and two adjoining rooms stretching out the two lateral dimensions to over 32 feet. As a result, the Emotiva monoblocks with 500 wpc, 4 ohms, do a good bit of work. Will see if the Nord is an improvement.
BTW, find that the DIs sound good in all three adjoining rooms when they are cranking hard. The full sound is very balanced and pleasant.
Reviewers talk uniformly about how good the bass response is with Class D and we shall see. Am able to make adjustments with Apqualizr.
SO, stay tuned around late July for another report.
Thanks, Al and Kenny: Only one observation to add to your sagaceous advice:
I believe that the excellent sound I am getting from my best lp's is partially due to the high gain of my Sound-Smith Voice cart. At any rate, I'll keep your suggestionson file until my budget permits a substantial upgrade. Again, thanks again.
BTW, does anyone know what the difference is between the DI's or Brilliance series and the PMD series with the same name? I'm not doubting Eric's development skills. I just wonder if anyone has any information on the imporvements gained. I don't wish to bother him if I am unable to jump to that price level, but I'd dearly like to know what I'm missing .
Some have reported overly-clinical sound in the past but the new op amp design appears to have addressed this complaint.
And it it does to some degree but at the end of the day I still find class d amplifiers not my cup of tea.
The midrange and the highs aren't quite right to my ears for the overall sonic presentation that I prefer.
I also don't need anywhere near that kind of pwr with my DI's.
The MZ2S can easily drive them to the mid to upper 80's in db levels at my seated location 10 ft away and still have a little headroom. My room size is 20x25x9 with a open kitchen on one end.
If I listen to some types of classical and classic rock,I do need a little more pwr,but I already own several amps for that and just got today a Zotl 40 that I will be trying out.
I do love the technology of class d and I think in the next 10yrs or so they will elvolve enough and probably be really good.
You might actually like the nords in your system and there is only one way to find out and that is to try one.They are popular enough they would still retain resale value if you didn't like them.
When my wife and I Demoed a pair of Q3's earlier this year at a dealer out of state they had them paired with a Devialant 440.
I was greatly impressed with the build quality of the magico's and the fact that they make their own drivers and utilize some of the very best crossover parts and design.
We only listened to analog and the dealer allowed us to bring and play our own lp's.I took 6 of my very best and favorites that I know very well.
I found the pairing to have incredible clarity with pinpoint accuracy within the soundstage that you could reach out and grab.The overall tone,harmonics,and timbre of individual instruments and voices were much inline to my preferences and found the treble to be very pleasing and have all the detail I would ever need.
Now as a demo pair that were at the top of my speaker budget,the shortcomings that I heard ultimately made my decision for me not to buy and wait and listen to something else.About the time that I found this thread and also read some reviews about the DI's,I decided to give Eric a call and ask some questions that he answered quite well even some I didn't think that he would.I decided to give the DI's a shot and you know the rest of the story,very happy owner and not looking back.
The Q3's sounded a little small in size at times and was missing the little resonances and nuances from instruments that make the music much more enjoyable to my ears.I quess the magico cabinets are so well braced and damped and Offcourse made of aluminum and bolted together,they just sound much different than any speaker I have ever heard.Now I think there is a fine line there,I would'nt like a speaker that has a lot of cabinet talk either but I find the DI's just about perfect in that respect.
I found the Q3's a little light in bass and might would have to use subs with them and I don't want to do that.The Di's are just right with goldilocks bass without subs for me.
Ultimatly if I was to spend 24k on Just speakers they had better do everything right.Buying the much cheaper Di's allow my budget to buy other equipment for my 2 systems.
Charles,I would love to read your opinion on both of these very high end products.
Yes, the MZ2 with the NOS TungSols and either Brimars or Mullards sounds absolutely stellar to me......but then I've not heard a SET amp with my system yet so I bet there's still room for improvement. Teajay's suggestions have been spot on and while I'm loving the sound of the MZ2 driving the DI's I need to hear what that extra meat on the bones brings to the table. My system sounds better than ever but I'm still searching for that perfect balance of great bass, dynamics, tone, texture, airy highs and realism. At this point I the MZ2 provides great bass, dynamics, speed, realism and tone. The TungSols increase the size of the soundstage and add to the texture, tone and bass. The Mullards bring even more texture and warmth while the Brimars excell at high end detail and air. Combining the Mullards strong points with the Brimars would be ideal and I'm hoping a SET will bring bring to the table what the Mullards do and I can get it all. I know......I want it all! :) I need to have you over to hear what sound I have now and get your advice as to whether or not I'm going in the right direction. Going from 1 watt per channel to a whopping 3.5 watts is a huge!
Great write up Bill. Sounds like you have a sweet amp on your hands and it makes me want to add an amp to my system even more now.
Kdude66: Thanks for the response. Is there a reason why you decided not to go with the Class D amps? Am waiting to hear back from them concerning potential duty and custom charges before ordering. Some have reported overly-clinical sound in the past but the new op amp design appears to have addressed this complaint.
Hello Bill, Thanks for taking the time to share your initial listening impressions. It seems that this is a very well thought out and executed product. Very good news to know a sub 1K dollar low power tube amplifier offers such high quality sound.
I’m not surprised that the sound improved further with the addition of a good quality active preamplifier, that makes plenty of sense to me. It would be very illuminating to compare this amplifier to the Cyber 2A3 SET that teajay finds exceptionally good sounding at its price point.
The Double Impacts are opening the door wide open to the beautiful sound quality of the lower power amplifier genre. Genuinely excellent sound for a quite affordable cost of amplifier + speaker. Charles
Thanks Bill. Exactly what I was looking for. Interesting it sounded better with your preamp in the chain. Not sure what to draw from that since there are so many variables but good to know you were getting good sound with a well engineered EL-84 based 12w amp.
Okay, I don't know how useful this will be considering that I don't have a good point of reference for comparison. I borrowed a Roland SRA-200E 150 watt pro audio power amp to get me going with the DI's. The Roland surpassed my expectations as a loaner. Very good sound quality.
The KingKo KA-101 was clearly better as expected. Listening to classic R&B, quality of the bass to me was the most obvious improvement. My Lover's Prayer by Otis Redding, convincingly puts a Fender Precision bass through an Ampeg B15 amp right in the room. Even at low volume, bass gravitas is realistic some how. I guess that's another striking attribute of the DI's, in conjunction with the KingKo: Striking sound with realistic dynamics at low listening levels. This illustrates the recent theme in this thread whereby less is more when you have speaker efficiency and quality amplification. Where in this world, 12 watts > 150 watts.
Using the KA-101 as a power amp with my Audio-GD Master 6 pre was another clear step up in quality. I would have preferred to use it as an integrated for simplicity's sake, but it was not to be. In combination with Yggdrasil, things were quite good indeed. These impressions were done straight out of the box, with no burn-in.
Of course things should significantly improve even further by swapping tubes. Here is what King recommended in the article's interview:
"I think the amplifier is just fine with the tubes that I supply as they are the Shuguang tubes from China. That said I think there are some big improvements that are attainable through tube rolling. The tubes that make the biggest impact on my amp are the 5AR4 Rectifier and 12AX7 preamp tubes. I suggest the NOS RCA 5U4G which is a 5AR4 equivalent. And I suggest the Gold Lion Gold Pin 12AX7, followed by the Tungsol 803s gold pin and EH (Electro Harmonix) Gold Pin. The EH is inexpensive and can be a little noisier in dynamic passages. There are many more expensive tubes that you may like better but these tubes are very good and quite reasonable. For the 12AU7, I prefer NOS from Brimer and Amperex, and finally I like the Gold Lion EL84s."
Some other R&B classics that showcased a large, detailed soundstage were: "Trust In Me" and "At last" by Etta James "A Change is Gonna Come" by Sam Cooke The Etta James' tunes were eerie. I turned the volume down several times because I was convinced someone was in the room with me.
I'll keep updating as the journey continues. I hope to audition other low watt tube amps to see how things compare.
The 700 watt Nord class D amplifier directly compared to the 1 watt Micro /MZ2-S. The epitome of different philosophies and design, this would be interesting and informative. The Double Impacts would bare all about both. I think that the 1 watt contender is a very special gem based on this thread’s feedback. Charles
Many amplifiers could possibly be a step backwards from where you are. High power seems superfluous with the Double Impacts given how easily they’re driven.
You're spot on with this wisdom, I have found that a person needs to pick a Amp carefully and the DI's will respond accordingly in sound.
I'm like you and just totally impressed with the MZ2S. Your using some of the best tube combos that I believe make a huge difference in sound.
Still hard to believe that the glorious 1 watt from the MZ2S can pwr such a huge speaker and have such control and well defined bass that is generally not lacking in volume for me unless I want to listen to some forms of classical and classic rock music at a little higher level.
I guess we both need to thank Teajay again for bringing the MZ2S capabilities and sound qualities to our attention.
The nos Tung Sol Vt-99,6f8g tubes with adapters and or 12au7's might be some interesting and good sounding combos as well.
I’m a current Pendragon owner considering trading out for the DI at some point. I’ve really enjoyed following this thread and especially the amplifier ideas. I’m curious now to try the MZ2, and Craig - I’ve previously read alot about the Nord amps and am curious to try those too. The Hypex amps that Nord sources from are pretty interesting. So I figure I’ll run two amplifier options with one running 1 watt, and the other 500+. Variety is the spice of life....
Mac, "Absolutely stellar" With results that spectacular from the 1 watt if makes me wonder if you need a power amplifier 😊. Many amplifiers could possibly be a step backwards from where you are. High power seems superfluous with the Double Impacts given how easily they’re driven. Charles
For those using the LTA MZ2 with your DI's I concur with teajay's recommendation of NOS TungSol round plate, black glass 12SN7's with the NOS Brimar yellow T label 12AT7's. Absolutely stellar. Beautiful tone and textures, huge and open soundstage, excellent detail and deep, powerful, controlled bass. I really like the 40's Sylvania 12SN7's and 40's Mullard 12AT's also, but the TungSols with the Brimars is my favorite combination.
Has anyone heard the new Nord One SE UP NC500DM? Contains "rollable" op amps and is getting great reviews. Would like to try out a Class D amp and am thinking this might be the right choice for the DIs. Complete balanced circuitry, trigger inputs, and Class A throughout. At 700 wpc, 4ohms, it should have enough power...
Add me to the list of those interested in your impressions of the KingKo, Bill. I'm still loving the MZ2 driving my DI's but will be adding an amp sometime this year and while I'm pretty much set on the Triode Labs 2A3S-FFX, the KingKo could be something to play with until I get it. I should probably try my vintage HH Scott 340B and Magnovox console tube amp or even my Decware Torii MK IV with the MZ2.........but I'm enjoying the MZ2 too much to try anything else!
My Brimar yellow T label 12AT7's arrived today, I'll be listening to them tonight. Thanks for the tip on them Teajay.
"My 12 watt P/P KingKo KA-101 delivered very quickly, 9 days after it was ordered. Just picked it up from the post office. Initial impressions tonight."
Looking forward to your findings. I have a number of amps including a Yaqin (Chinese) tube amp that is also based on the EL-84, 12w x 12w, 3 inputs, headphone jack and excellent build quality. It sells for around $500. It's not tube rectified, however, so may not be apples to apples but close. A positive finding with the KingKo may be enough for me to pull the trigger on the Tekton Double Impacts.
PS: Genelex and Mullard (both reissues) EL-84s are available at a reasonable cost and could be a worthwhile tube roll.
+1 teajay, count me as interested/curious as well. If this sub 1000.00 dollar amplifier is of good quality it'd be quite a low cost mate for the Double Impacts. Richard Austen is in my opinion a very good and honest reviewer and is familiar with many High quality tube power amplifiers. I believe that he's a good reference point. Charles
I wish the Vidar had a DAC also. I would really consider adding it to my computer. Overkill, but the speakers I want to add to the computer are not very efficient.
My current subwoofer, an Outlaw Audio, is resting on four DIY hockey pucks. They actually work great. Think I picked them up for about 3 bucks a pop online somewhere.
Will have to switch those over when I get the new monster sub.
I have my Double Impact Towers, but am currently awaiting one of Erics massive Brisance subwoofers, as well as a custom designed center and standard surrounds to complete the 5.1 double impact surround system.
My friend received his already. Good lord. I've never seen a HT subwoofer so massive.
May have to load up the Brisance Sub onto some pucks when I finally get it.
In the meantime, I think I'll buy the standard Herbies threaded stud gliders and see how it goes. Save a decent chunk of change over the giant gliders. I just cant imagine the giant gliders will provide that much better isolation and sound over the standard size gliders. ~$150 difference between the two for a set of 8.
Hi Al, Excellent comments and explanation on this topic. This is a classic example of how someone would erroneously place the blame of lack of amplifier power when in fact the culprit is a lack of gain in the audio system. This is a distinction I've seen others confused before. Charles
Al's thoughts on your placette preamp are spot on.
I'ts so confusing to me that they call it a Active linestage but the specs only list "Unity gain.
And like Al has pointed out unity gain = no gain.
If I was in your position and really liked the F3,I would look at replacing it with a active linestage preamp such as the LTA MZ2S. Then if you wanted to later try the F7 you would have a much better matchup.
Just my thoughts and opinion but I'm strongly against using a passive preamp in my system in general.
If you still wanted to keep and use your placette you really need to find a suitable Amp that has the average gain of 26 db.
What is your budget and the sonic signature that you like.
@mazikrav, thanks for providing the additional info in your latest post. Assuming that the gain provided in the active buffer stage Mr. Hammel provided you with is similar to what is described in the Stereophile review you linked to, your initial statement that it provides little or no gain was correct. "Unity gain" = no gain.
So per my earlier comments it can be calculated that when you are listening to LPs you cannot presently drive your F3 amplifier even close to its 10 watt maximum capability (for a 4 ohm load), at least on the vast majority of recordings. And the same would hold true with respect to the 30 watt capability of the F7. Fortunately it sounds like that isn’t a problem given your particular circumstances and listening habits. But I would suggest that if you go to a different amplifier it would be preferable to obtain one having substantially higher gain than the 12.5 and 14 db gains of those amps. Most amps having power capabilities comparable to the F7, or more, would provide that additional gain. As I mentioned, a downside of the design philosophy underlying most of the First Watt amplifiers is low gain.
Finally, as added confirmation of all of this note the following comment by John Atkinson in the measurements section of the review you referred to:
As specified, the Placette Active Linestage (ALS) offers a maximum gain of unity; ie, the maximum signal level is the same as that of the source components driving it. Owners should make sure, therefore, that their source components offer a sufficiently high signal level to fully drive their amplifiers.
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