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The best tweeter is no tweeter

In a recent review in Stereophile for the Elac Carina over an AMT based speaker (I’m a fan of AMTs by the way) the author, Herb Reichert, makes this statement:

My personal experience suggests that the overall sound of any loudspeaker is greatly determined by the designer’s choice of tweeter.


and then he goes on to list some speakers with AMTs, some of which I like, some of which I hate, which he feels share the same qualities. And it got me thinking about something as I hook up my home theater again. In my mind, the very best tweeters are completely invisible and transparent. I do not suggest you should use a single-driver, full ranger with a whizzer, heavens no. That’s just wrong (grin) and a clear cry for help.


What I am suggesting is that in the very best tweeters in the world, of which some are AMTs, and many are not, you simply cannot tell what they are.


That is, they are absolutely transparent. You do not perceive sound emanating from them at all. Music is just there, in front of you. Some of these are ring radiators that are really reasonably priced. Some are German or Spanish AMTs, some are diamond or Be tweeters.


In fact, my home theater has both ring radiators and AMTs in them, both of which may be found among the most prestigious brands of speakers. Though they have entirely different operating principles and materials, their performance is absolutely seamless. I barely use EQ except for the sub and center due to the latter’s location on a shelf. What both of these tweeters share is incredibly smooth output (unlike crappy AMTs or Be tweets) that is flat to beyond 20 kHz.


Please, buy what you like, but to me, if you want to talk about a world class driver, it’s not one you can sit in front of and say "aha! I know this is an Aluminum/Be/Diamond/AMT tweeter!!"


If you can tell the type of tweeter you are listening to, I can assure you it is not among the best in the world.
erik_squires
kenjit
1,771 posts
 
@rixthetrick 

Kenjit, have you personally ever "swapped out tweeters" in your loudspeakers?
yes. Ive tried with my PMC and green mountains. 

Did you research their characteristics and the crossover points in your loudspeaker and other drivers first?

not at all. i just picked the tweeters that would fit with the least amount of drilling or cutting. 


Did you do any anti-phase measurements to discern how deep and symetrical the curve is between the drivers and also the linearity they sum to reproduce?

none whatsoever. All of what I do is custom tuned to
my ears by hand. Same way a high end piano would be tuned. 
And the same way all speaker engineers do it despite what they would have you believe. 

And if any energy would have to be added or removed from what the drivers see to help linearity?

what linearity? If youre alluding to the dreaded flat frequency response then thats a myth. 

All I'm suggesting is that swapping a tweeter is a minor modification mechanically. It will also involve adjustments to the crossover but thesedays thats easy to do with dsp. 

clearthink
1,421 posts
 

kenjit "If youre alluding to the dreaded flat frequency response then thats a myth."

If you are not interested in flat, neutral, uncolored frequency response then any speaker can be you're Best Speaker just pick one with you're preferred distortion, coloration, and deviation from flat FR many people like distortion so enjoy!
crustycoot
644 posts
 
The problem with most speakers is that the drivers don't add up to flat power output unless you are in the right place, which we call "the sweet spot".  It's worse with disparate polar patterns,  Long ribbons, like Magnepan uses in the 3.7i and up can mitigate this.  20.7s and 30.7s are pretty awesome in their orchestral scale, coherency, and naturlism.
IMO, to be "best" a speaker would have to have flat power response in a quarter sphere radiation pattern and keep the sound coherent no matter where the listener is.  Ohm Acoustics tries to do this with many of their Walsh-derived models, which I have not heard.  German Physiks uses the Walsh principle for a full 360 degrees, just as the old Ohm F did, but given their advanced materials technology, just might be my candidate for a "best".  Anyone familiar with these?
erik_squires OP
16,134 posts
 
The problem with most speakers is that the drivers don't add up to flat power output unless you are in the right place, which we call "the sweet spot".



This is only true if your definition of an ideal speaker is one with the widest sweet spot. Many are deliberately designed to avoid this in order to better work with room acoustics.  Further, show me a mastering room which uses an omni? If there are any, they are super rare.

Of course, buy what you like. :) Just saying that when you take a position like this you are doing so because you favor some things and not others.

georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
crustycoot
The problem with most speakers is that the drivers don’t add up to flat power output unless you are in the right place, which we call "the sweet spot"

Best tweeter by far that is 360’, and so transparent it floats front it’s image like firefly’s front of you that you can reach out and touch, no other tweeter can match these, it’s a non horn loaded Plasma tweeter.

I have a pair that xover from my ESL’s and are truly way above anything else for a tweeter even the ESL’s, as the diaphragm is ionized air created by the Plasma flame, there is no mass, and the signal pulsates that ionized cone of air, they also extend out to 150khz with no resonate ringing, no phase shift with these down into the audible frequencies.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnat-Plasma-MP-02-ion-tweeter-massless-air-plasma-speaker-Plasmahochtoner/282700838884?hash=item41d24877e4:g:yJkAAOSwTmtZ6PwI

Cheers George
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