The Law of Accelerating Returns

@mahgister 

 

Respectfully, you make it abundantly clear in every thread on which you participate that acoustics and getting the room right are important. You get no argument from any seasoned audiogon participant.

 

May I point out though that you seem to frequently imply that great gear might be a waste of time and money. May I posit that if your room is, in fact, exceptionally tuned that a great system dropped into your room would outperform an average system in the same room? What is the best system that you've heard in your room? In any room?

"The marketing of luxury goods has a common thread in that the high cost of the item is actually a feature of the product. Exclusivity is a selling point."

This, a million times over.

And, the fact that others know how much your stuff cost is very important.

May I point out though that you seem to frequently imply that great gear might be a waste of time and money

You put your idea in my mouth...I NEVER say that ever.... 😊

i said that ONCE an audio relatively good system is chosen at any price and accordingly to your wallet, any upgrade WITHOUT and BEFORE optimization of the chosen audio system is a lost of money...

Is it clearer ?

And the improvement produced by acoustic optimization is so great, if your starting system of choice is well choosen to begin with for sure, that MOST subsequent upgrade will appear preposterous if you take in consideration the S.Q./price ratio...

I said "most", because if you start from a 50 bucks used speaker set like mine upgrading to a 100,000 dollars one, no room treatment and even no mechanical tuning will replace this upgrade and make it meaningless... It is only common sense...But dont laugh at my 50 bucks speakers, your smile risk to be colored yellow listening them in their room... 😁😊

 

May I posit that if your room is, in fact, exceptionally tuned that a great system dropped into your room would outperform an average system in the same room?

Sorry but you did not understood my point... 😁😊

First my room is relatively well optimized accordingly to my ability...Not exceptionnaly tuned...This will be a ridiculous pretense and boasting...But i am satisfied yes and very happy...It takes me months each day of tuning listening sessions...Nothing is perfect BUT....

Second acoustic tuning is not ONLY classic room passive treatment but more importantly mechanical control with two types of Helmholtz devices, resonator who diffuse et absorb selected bandwidth and diffusers who only diffuse selected bandwith...

Third, my room is mechanically tuned FOR A SPECIFIC SPEAKERS, and FOR MY SPECIFIC EARS if i drop inside my actual room a new speakers with a new dac and amplifier, all the tuning process must be redone from the beginning with listening experiments tuning adapted to the new speakers systems if i want to reach the peak working optimal level of the new system ...

Fourth, acoustic optimization can improve a low cost system OVER a costlier one ONLY if the costlier one is not itself optimized in his own adapted room and is in a nude room like most showroom or most living room ...

Then no acoustic magic trick can transform a low design quality in the highest one ever... Common sense is need... 😁😊

What is the best system that you’ve heard in your room?

Mine for sure for the reasons given above... 😊

In any room?

Homemade speakers from Tannoy 15 inches dual gold cones and big magnepans, my own past 12 inches Tannoy, Quad electrostatic speakers also , all these were better than my actual very good Mission Cyrus 781...

Then why i prefer my Mission Cyrus now to all of them...?

BECAUSE my room is optimized for the Miussion Cyrus, none of these others better speakers were in an acoustically treated room and certainly very far from a mechanically controlled room which is the only way to adapt the room to the speakers...

 

You get no argument from any seasoned audiogon participant.

The reason is simple: ONLY acoustic and psycho-acoustic can explain sound management and perception...Electronic devices are tool to convey some selected acoustical recorded information from one room perspective via a studio to my room/ears.... Audio is acoustical sound translation...Only gear marketing abusively call it pure reproduction...

 

 

 

Final word: real acousticians never boast about gear brand name guess why?

For the same reason mechanician can transform any ordinary motor to a super working one...The acoustician will make the best of whatever system is in the room...

There is always better motor and better gear for sure , but the important point is what will you make yourself of what you already have....

 

Thanks for your interesting questions...

And kind interest...

My best to you....

 

The notion that the potential of a $10,000 integrated is wasted if fed with a $400 DAC suggests that the $10k integrated is doing something correctly that the $400 DAC is not doing as correctly, but perhaps a $10K DAC could do as correctly. It’s the notion that one component is more close to perfect while another is tarnishing the signal in a way that is uncorrectable by the better component. If this is so, we need to define what that "perfect" is. It would suggest some kind of pure, untainted quality of the signal is being lost by the cheaper DAC. What could that possibly be? It certainly isn’t frequency response, or phase information, or distortion or noise. I’m highly skeptical that there’s any important signal information that is being mangled by the $400 DAC (assuming it's not some peculiar design that intentionally deviates from linearity or adds distortion) that would ruin the potential of the $10k integrated. However, if the output of the DAC and the input of the receiver are not appropriately matched in terms of level and impedance requirements, then the potential of both of them could be wasted.

The $400 dac very likely has a highly compromised output stage. So, a marginal dac with a compromised output stage...there is a chance that it might sound good but a whole lot of fortunate accidents would have to occur for that to be the case. What often occurs among the well heeled is that they pay extra for the dealer and/or manufacturer to remove variables that detract from the sound. If someone's income averages $1,000 per hour, its highly unlikely that person would willingly spend 20 hours to discover the best $400 dac. Multiply that if someone is on a quest to do the same exercise for amps/preamps/cables/speakers. So many scoff at the value a trusted dealer brings to the table...I happen to believe they save many people the frustration and random successes that can sometimes happen. Is it more or less expensive to get it right the first time?