The plight of SACD....

Hi-end Sony are very capable products...if you dont think SOny has the resources to produce the best digital gear...you are kidding yourself...dont confuse their hi-end line with the junk at Audio Supermarkets...

Joe, you gave me a good belly-laugh! As if I had never heard a "state of the Digital art" system!

I agree with some posts above that some music is simply not available on analog, and that is a good reason for having a CD player. I tried to use them quite a few times, in fact. Always hopeful that it would sound better. Finally, I decided that it was good for the car, so I kept some of my CDs for that purpose. For the home, I felt it was a waste of my valuable tube life, to play something that could not make good use of my high resolution audio system.

I assure you that ignorance of audio products is not the cause of my love affair with vinyl. In fact, it is quite the opposite. I am well aware of what digital can do, and that is why I am sticking with vinyl.

I do notice, however, what is constantly brought up in these anti-vinyl arguments. It is having to clean the records, having to get up off the chair to change the record, having to take care of your adjustments and your equipment, and potential clicks and pops. I find this very interesting. It is also frequently sprinkled with phrases like "get into reality" or "living in the past", like Joe, here, has so aptly demonstrated. I don't ever hear things about CD is more musical than vinyl, or sounds better. Only stuff about black background and convenience. This is very telling abuot the mindset of many of today's audiophiles. Sound is secondary, convenience is paramount. I can easily get a black background by shutting off my system, but that doesn't provide me with any musical content, does it? Now, where is the line drawn, where it is ok to start reducing musical capability to retain black background? There's your dilemma. What you all are telling me is that you are willing to accept a lesser audio quality, in order to get noise-free convenience with remote control. That may be fine for you, but it is not fine for me. This is where we seem to differ. I will accept less convenience, and more possibility of some noises, to get more musical content out of my system. Getting the most out of an audio system used to be what defined an audiophile, from a mass market person. Apparently that is not the case today. Today, it is the best reasonable sound without too much difficulty. Oh, I know that you will say that you are getting the maximum sound quality possible. I say, Not True. I say that you are getting the maximum sound quality that you will accept, given the convenience levels offered. I know that this is not a popular point of view. It forces many to look at their choices as not audiophile. It is not pleasant, but it is a fact. Now, I don't claim that there is anything wrong with making a choice like that, because convenience and black background are very nice. But, I do claim that there is something wrong with defending that choice, by saying that it is the sonic equal of something that it clearly is not the equal to. Just own up to what you are really choosing, which is convenience at the expense of some sound quality. I own up to the fact that I am choosing highest sound quality at the expense of some inconvenience and some record noises. Attempting to demean me with derogatory statements does not advance the argument. The black-and-white truth is plain. I accept less convenience, and some noise, and you accept less sound quality. If you want to change this, the avenue is plainly available to both of us.

So, by all means enjoy the digital scene, and have a good time with your music. I will be back in my Troglodyte cave, with my vinyl and my tubes, and my single driver speakers.

And, if it needs to be stated, this is all my humble opinion, and is not intended to offend or rebuke any of my fellow audiophiles. I profusely apologize for any offense that may be taken. Everyone is entitled to their own choices for their own reasons. And I have not called anyone any derogatory names, or implied they didn't know anything, as has just been done to me. It's okay to do it to a vinyl head, but not okay the other way, right? Don't worry, I've been called names by CD people for 20 years now, and it is still happening right up to this very moment. I'm used to it. Seems the CD people are pretty thin-skinned about any criticism though.

I am simply calling it as I see it.

Hi everyone,

I've stayed out of this foray because it inevitably ends up a "us" versus "them" thread. I have a slightly different take on all of this because I have lived through the emergence of all these different formats. When digital first made the scene I was very threatened by the prospect of my software not being supported with replacement hardware. You know, all the bits and pieces needed to keep my analog engine running. I then was threatened by record outlets not carrying my type of software. That certainly came true. As stated earlier, digital made my ears bleed also. The entire decade of the 80's CD releases can be written off as unlistenable. The whole time I'm struggling to overcome the lack of new vinyl software and suffering the slings and arrows the proponents of the digital domain tossed at me. Comments like, "come out of the cave", "you're missing the dynamic range", "vinyl is dead, give it up", "the black background", on and on. I didn't sell my analog gear and library. Not because I had a chrystal ball or because I was smarter than the CD crowd, but because I was stubborn and didn't want to part with, perhaps, 2000 albums. When CD's became listenable I bought a player but whenever the music I desired was available on vinyl, that is what I bought because I am hooked on several aspects of vinyl. I usually prefer the sound of analog. I like a sizeable object to hold and find reading the liner notes to be a joy rather than the challenge of what one pulls out of a jewel case. I enjoy placing my new LP's in a plastic jacket cover, cleaning the vinyl and replacing the paper sleeves with rice paper sleeves. So what? I like hand waxing my car too. I think everyone here is missing some key points that need to be talked about. The big issue is COPYRIGHT PROTECTION. Have I got your attention? Vinyl will continue to be a niche market because there is no protection with that format. The spinning silver disc's will disappear because hackers will always be able to defeat the code. Only when manufacturers combine a cheap, licensed piece of material that is encoded with the data and impossible to duplicate will the dust ever settle in these wars. READ: A MUSIC CHIP. Unfortunatly, I believe that quality will be a side issue for a long time. We all struggle to make the most of what we have and I'm confident that incremental steps will be made to achieve satisfaction with most types of software. When the chip comes, the Redbook crowd will be suffering the same slings and arrows we vinyl guys endured and I promise you that you will cling to your source the same way we have. Just keep in mind that all of us combined are a niche market

Boy, when I clicked on my favorites this morning I thought I had clicked on the audio asylum site. Debate is good.

A friend has a Pioneer Elite universal DVD/SACD/DVDA/CD player. He took a look inside and saw "Sony" labels on many parts. Leave SACD to Sony, indeed...!