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the sound of massed violins in classical orchestral recordings

why do massed violins have this sort of gritty sandpapery reverberation in classical orchestral recordings?even in some sections of a piece, when the violins are playing softly in the background, you hear that gritty overtone more than the melody.when I listen to the Houston symphony in Jones Hall,sitting fourth row, facing the violin section, I don't hear that sound.I have three systems { two of them mid-fi ] and I hear the same thing-even with headphones.in all instances, the other parts of the orchestra are clear.  my main system : Vanalistine Trancendence 10 tube preamp,a 35 year old solid state Proton D1200 amp, [have tried NAD,Project, Musical Fidelity amps--they don't sound any better],Onkyo dx7555 CD player [Stereophile class B],and Project Carbon turntable with Grado Black 2 cartridge [ the Ortophon Red was too bright ] through Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Tried a highly regarded Elac speaker--no change as far as the violins go, but way inferior to those dramatic Maggies.So, there you have it. Is it the equipment? Is the state of the art not up to recording violins? Is it me? [its o.k.-I can take it}. In closing,a couple of years ago,I had phone conversation with a well known person associated with a major speaker company about this. His response :[ paraphrased ] Violins are a problem--don't like 'em.  Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
6119
audiogeorge
3 posts
 
The problem isn't massed violins or any other instrument although instruments with complex waveforms make what you're hearing more obvious.  Even pure sine waves playing the exact same pitch (which real live musicians and singers frequently vary slightly vary from each other can make for an even rougher sound) that originate from different distances from the microphone will sound rough due to how they comb filter each other.  Therefore, even when listening live you should hear the same roughness.  Massed coral music will do the same thing.  It's simple physics.  Therefore, it's difficult to judge the fidelity of a recording or playback system when using music with massed interments because it's very difficult to distinguish the live roughness from the sound of added recorded comb filtering.  For more on this and polarity in general, see:  www.AbsolutePolarity.com, George S. Louis, Phone:  619-401-9876, please feel free to call me.
6119 OP
32 posts
 
P.S. Yes, I hear that artifact in solo voices and choirs, a kind of "rattle" from certain notes on the scale. Eileen Farrell Puccini Arias. What a voice! But on certain notes' kind of "cackle/crack"reverb. No problem with flutes....so far. Regarding "laid back", I remember reading some attractive things about the VANDERSTEEN 2CE Signature II. But now it seems to have disappeared and there is a Signature III,which no one has written about yet.Life goes on. I'm going to chill and put on some Brubeck on vinyl and then maybe some Keith Jarrett. Is vinyl better than CD.Dunno,but the ritual that used to irritate me back when is kinda fun now.
jrbirdman333
105 posts
 
This is a fascinating string. I agree that the sound of strings is very tough to reproduce. Perhaps I lack the sophistication to comment here, but I do play the classical violin. My complaint with most recordings is that the sound doesn't sound real. I want to hear that the violin(s) is/are made out of wood. I want to here the zzzzhiitt sound at the frog of the bow. The recordings on DG are in my humble opinion the best at capturing string sound. Decca is positively the worst. If the original recording equipment doesn't accurately capture the sound, it won't matter what equipment we use to play it back. 
terry9
2,333 posts
 
Absolutely, massed violins can be damned well ugly. You know that your system is getting there when you can listen to Barber's Adagio for Strings and not wince.
pwerahera
121 posts
 
Magnepan MG12/QR speakers are rated at 86dB with 4 ohm impedance. These are ribbon speakers and very complex loads for the amplifier. Your preferred amp Proton D1200 amp is rated 100W at 8 Ohms. You need a SS amp with plenty of power, I would say at least 400 W at 4 ohms before you can really determine if mass strings are a problem. Find a good dealer who can loan you a good amp with plenty of current and try that in your system first.

I understand issue with mass strings all too well. I think your problem is with the amplifier. Old Krell and McCormack amps can handle mass strings with ease. But they are not the only ones.

Good Luck!
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