Thiel 2.3 vs 2.4

Tim,

Everyday at work for three years my job was to present the Thiel 2.3's to the public. I know more about that speaker than you will ever know. I have fixed them, upgraded them, tweaked them heard them in more rooms than I can remember. Got feedback from 100's of people. I have tested the drivers.What more can I tell you, what do you want me to do? conform to popular beliefs so you're comfortable? I'm not into "popularity" the fact that most people agree is a great reason to disagree.

You can't possibly know this but I build speakers and they are very well received. My measurement techniques are not flawed and I understand the topology of the Thiel system better than most. It's not magic. I owned 1.2 and 2.2's which may fuel the great dissappointment in the quality of sound available from Thiel since then. That is until the 2.4's which to me represents a rebirth for Thiel.

How you doubt my credibility because I'm going against the (objective?) press. You're acting the same as the person I inform that Consumer Reports has to place Bose in the top 5 because of a lawsuit in the 1980's. They are skeptical but its still true. Do you think Stereophile wants to lose Thiel ad money?

At the last store I worked we declined the offer to carry thiel because the 1.6 has such a terrible distortion problem, that it is just awful and not competitive with any of the speakers we had at half the price.

If you don't believe me look at the Soundstage measurements which show the cone break up modes in the 1.6 in the distortion measurement. Is this the kind of speaker you think should be considered world class? Look at any speaker in its price point and their distortion figures notice how all the subjective reviews understate this problem. I told the Thiel dudes this is unacceptable. And it is, but maybe you can accept it and call it clean and accurate?

Look I don't want to fight with you, but the problems with the 2.3 are not opinion or perception they are facts.

If you like the way the 2.3 sounds then you have to accept these facts. The flaws do not change with ones opinion. Your "awful" and "pathetic" may differ from mine in degree but the 2.3 is a great example of why you shouldn't listen to the press' Rave reviews. It never deserved it.

So there it is. buy the CS2.4, that's my opinion based on the facts.

Cine,

Facts? Well, still opinion on both our sides. I have had Thiel CS2. 2.2 and 2.3 and they all seem to have a very similar sound. I have even installed the "improved" drivers in my 2.3s and the improvement was subtle. I guess I just like the Thiel sound. It just struck me as odd and out of step to hear such a strident condemnation of Thiel. Even the magazine reviewers write-ups are just opinion, and I take them with a grain of salt but when you seldom get a really negative review the quality speaks for itself. It reminds me of Honda newsgroups where someone would say the Accord was crap and unreliable. It just went against the tide of opinion. I don't want to fight either. The new Gallo Reference 3 impressed me lately. How is that for a change of topic?

Distortion in CS1.6. Just another question. I looked at Soundstage's test and see only another glowing Theil review. This from their distortion measurement:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/thiel_cs16/

"Thiel Audio CS1.6 Loudspeakers: Measurements

PLEASE NOTE: Our standard is to provide the THD+N measurement at 90dB with a measuring distance of 2 meters (within the anechoic chamber). Since this speaker produced low distortion levels under those conditions, we have added a second measurement performed at 95dB to give an indication of performance under higher-output conditions."

Where is the cone breakup? I am really curious. Thanks.

Tim

Cinematic_systems- Are you a Thiel dealer? Were you a Thiel dealer?
If so,why would you sell a speaker you hated?
Did/do you trash Thiel but still sell them?
I would say you are a bad represenative for Thiel Audio.
I wonder what they would think of a Thiel dealer who trashes their speakers?
I see you are very good at knocking Thiel.
Give me your 'opinion' of my 3.5's please.
dave

Both speakers need a LOT of breakin and complementary equipment (in the sense of high quality and also not being overly lean). The upgrade to the midrange driver of the 2.3 made a major difference to my ear, and eliminated my one serious concern with the speaker. I have heard many Thiels sound wonderful and awful, the same speaker, depending on degree of breakin and associated equipment. Also, they need current. If you underpower them they will provide the volume but it will be unpleasant. Finally, as to your question, to me the 2.4 is worth many times the value of the 2.3. It seems to have a more relaxed, natural sound, and overall seems to improve in many ways.
Art