Thiel 2.3 vs 2.4

Cine,

Facts? Well, still opinion on both our sides. I have had Thiel CS2. 2.2 and 2.3 and they all seem to have a very similar sound. I have even installed the "improved" drivers in my 2.3s and the improvement was subtle. I guess I just like the Thiel sound. It just struck me as odd and out of step to hear such a strident condemnation of Thiel. Even the magazine reviewers write-ups are just opinion, and I take them with a grain of salt but when you seldom get a really negative review the quality speaks for itself. It reminds me of Honda newsgroups where someone would say the Accord was crap and unreliable. It just went against the tide of opinion. I don't want to fight either. The new Gallo Reference 3 impressed me lately. How is that for a change of topic?

Distortion in CS1.6. Just another question. I looked at Soundstage's test and see only another glowing Theil review. This from their distortion measurement:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/thiel_cs16/

"Thiel Audio CS1.6 Loudspeakers: Measurements

PLEASE NOTE: Our standard is to provide the THD+N measurement at 90dB with a measuring distance of 2 meters (within the anechoic chamber). Since this speaker produced low distortion levels under those conditions, we have added a second measurement performed at 95dB to give an indication of performance under higher-output conditions."

Where is the cone breakup? I am really curious. Thanks.

Tim

Cinematic_systems- Are you a Thiel dealer? Were you a Thiel dealer?
If so,why would you sell a speaker you hated?
Did/do you trash Thiel but still sell them?
I would say you are a bad represenative for Thiel Audio.
I wonder what they would think of a Thiel dealer who trashes their speakers?
I see you are very good at knocking Thiel.
Give me your 'opinion' of my 3.5's please.
dave

Both speakers need a LOT of breakin and complementary equipment (in the sense of high quality and also not being overly lean). The upgrade to the midrange driver of the 2.3 made a major difference to my ear, and eliminated my one serious concern with the speaker. I have heard many Thiels sound wonderful and awful, the same speaker, depending on degree of breakin and associated equipment. Also, they need current. If you underpower them they will provide the volume but it will be unpleasant. Finally, as to your question, to me the 2.4 is worth many times the value of the 2.3. It seems to have a more relaxed, natural sound, and overall seems to improve in many ways.
Art

Sorry I wasn't more diplomatic? 3.5's were great in their day, driver technology limits them today, but I don't know of a 17 yr. old speaker that wouldn't have that problem.

I don't know what you guys want, do you want me to pitter patter around the truth and not make myself clear?

Measure a 2.3 sometime and then explain to me where the superiority is in this design where the accuracy is and its desirable Qualities show up. Why does its replacement seem to eclipse it by such a great margin?

addressing 1.6 issues

As for the "breakup mode" or possible distortion from the tweeter being over driven, do you see the huge distortion spike at 1.2Khz, that is not good and it is clearly audible. This is a $3000 speaker!

The measurements don't lie, even stereophile's measurements don't lie. That's were the truth is, an audio review magazine is a business and writers don't want their job to disappear in a poof of honesty.

Guys I'm getting the feeling that you don't understand that bad products get great subjective reviews all the time and as a participant in this industry It is a very bad thing. Because the magazines want to keep every possible stereo company in business and profitable. That way they have more clients.

Let's review some other quotes in this thread;

"to me the 2.4 is worth many times the value of the 2.3."
Artmaltman

The 2.4 is not "nearly the same speaker" as the 2.3. It's way, way better"
Keithr


"listened to both and fortunate that the dealer had a close out pair of the 2.3s and the 2.4s were better in every way"

Theo

Let me tell you a story that shows how bad the 2.3 is:

We were a reasonably successful Meridian dealer and we were selling 5-6 Meridian 568's a month on average, then we switched in the thiel 2.3's with the new MC1 Center channel and we didn't sell a 568 for 1 month, until we switched the thiels out and put the Dynaudio's back in. That next month 4 568's sold.

So bad you couldn't sell any of the equipment connected to them either! Do you want to know that information? Is that relevant to you? Or should I keep that stuff under the rug. You guys all have great jobs that allow you to afford this equipment. I realize that people are free to make their own decisions but he asked and this is my experience...not my opinion.

So, subjective words like pathetic and horrible are rough should be backed up which I think I have. I'm sorry i don't have the documentation any longer, I switched measurement programs. But words like reborn and excellent should be weighed just as heavily. I am not a Thiel hater, I'm a bad speaker hater, whether I made it myself or someone famous made it.

My list of bad speakers would shock you, and trust me many of them show up in class A lists.

Finally buy the CS2.4 its a great speaker and the great people at Thiel make it,and I like it. that's the best reason of all :) have a good holiday everyone,

PS: Sorry to have to say those thing about your speakers McTeague, my intentions were only to help D99 make the right choice atleast from a objective performance standpoint, value for the money etc.