@greg22lz , these posts may seem pedantic or oddball but you’ve been here a long time. I think we have a new generation of members, some who are experienced audiophiles and others who love music and want to build a system and join this hobby.
When I see an "oddball" post I check the date the OP joined. There’s a very high number who have joined in the last year...IMO, a great thing.
This OP has another thread in which he asks for recommendations of high quality recordings to test a system. That sounds like somebody who’s pretty new to high-end audio.
Based on the DR scale, the recording in question is as bad as it can possibly get and is high on the unlistenable scale.
The advice the OP should receive is the explanation of the recording process, compression, and the Loudness Wars.
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@mapman , the average DR of 10 is for vinyl and I agree with you that it's better than most digital files which are pressed to vinyl.
The CD and download (itunes mp4) measures an average of 6. This digital file is what most of this demographic will be listening to. This is the issue that the article addresses; other genres besides pop music get the same treatment and that's the problem.
I also agree with your point about some highly compressed heavy metal sounding acceptable. The difference may be that pop music is a mix of electronic effects layered throughout. Metal is well mic'd musicians recorded and mixed using standard industry techniques.
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The only way to get vinyl or CDs with minimal DR (higher numbers) is to buy the original issues. Something that I have been doing for a while.
Regarding new music, there's no getting around the high compression.
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For sibilant voices engineers use filters and a mild amount of compression. This is standard practice.
There may be sibilance thru your speakers due to tipped-up highs from the mix and/or mastering.
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The harshness in her voice (and other artists today) is mostly due to the use of effects specifically Autotune. These pop and rap recordings are not using a sine wave to organically correct pitch, a square wave is created and the gain is pushed high into the vocals. Next add the loudness part with the use of limiting and compression and you have buzzing, electronic sounding vocals.
It's the style of pop music today.
And then each radio station adds a fair amount of compression. And for streaming (iTunes) the original files have the data compressed into a low-res version of the song.
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And then all the effects are applied.
I've seen videos where rappers are in the studio and when the bass starts thumping and the vocals are tweaked to hell, that's the moment they start getting into their new track.
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In my opinion nothing that records, analog or digital, is a true
representation of reality. It is, almost by definition, a facsimile. Listen to classical (either symphonic or a sonata) and a jazz combo using minimal mic's thru a well designed high-end system and room. Is it live or is it Memorex?The experience can be like you're in a concert hall. (no way we're talking about my system). |
Compression has always been used in studio production. It’s used judiciously on instruments; eg, on a drum to tighten up the attack and decay, or cymbals to stop excessive overtones or ring-out. The result is a naturally sounding drum kit tailored to the engineer/producer’s taste.
An engineer would deal with sibilance by using a different mic, a blast filter or screen, and by isolating the offending frequencies and using filters and EQ. There could be some compression, and many effects are used to achieve a desired sound, but at this stage in the recording process it would not be detrimental to the music.
The mix process involves getting the best quality possible. This is where the producer and engineer show their skills.
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RE: her voice. Her early stuff sounds more natural, you can hear her voice without effects added to them (although compressed, as is all digital now). The "Reputation" tracks have the gain on the electronic processing so high that it is mixed into her voice. Yes, it’s a manipulated amalgam of voice. Her voice has been run thru processing and cranked-up to the level of her natural vocal. Not all the tracks have this and I noticed it comes and goes within some tracks. As everybody can hear, her early music didn’t have all this crap added. Same with Katy Perry and the like, their early releases were more organic. The abuse of these effects have been embraced by Hip Hop producers and in turn was added to pop. Even in Kanye’s early music you could hear his voice. Now it’s sounds synthesized and electronic, and to my ears, I hear buzzing sounds in the vocals.
This has nothing to do with loudness, as I stated earlier, the recording, the mix, and the effects are separate stages in music production. Before the compression is added by the mastering engineer, I’ll bet her vocal track stands out above the backing tracks. After the high compression is added and the master is brickwalled, the gain can be boosted and all tracks are compressed together. There’s no more separation of vocals and instruments. We can call this the loudness stage, if you wish.
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do they (engineers, etc) do all this stuff to the music on SUPPOSEDLY LIVE TV SHOWS LIKE BRITTAN’S GOT TALENT, THE VOICE, SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE AND SO MANY MORE... On a live broadcast or live-to-tape production, the video will be uncompressed HD and the live audio feed will be run thru a mixing console with EQ to correct for the acoustics of the venue. A moderate amount of compression is used to keep audio levels high and evenly balanced. This is the feed that goes out to the network operations center. Inside the venue or studio there are engineers mixing the performances with a full compliment of audio gear; the same setup you would see when attending a concert. These engineers will mix the band or roll playback of the music for the performers. They work for the sound company and have rehearsed with the performers, singers, bands. They’re the guys applying the effects and compression. So, the signal is sent out via satellite or land line, where more compression is added by each TV station, cable or satellite service. I’ve worked on shows (mostly sporting events) where the audio sounds terrific thru our monitors in the truck or studio. I’ve later watched the program and heard how bad it sounds after it has been processed by the various broadcast facilities to get to the TV in the home. An exception would be PBS airing concerts and other performances in high quality picture and sound. An opera or symphony would best be enjoyed by listening thru a home HiFi system. |
Oh yeah, and these broadcasts sound especially bad if you have Comcast cable. Their digital technology and processing of the TV signal results in high compression of both picture and sound. |
@n80, these big budget network shows can afford the best talent and technology. The mix is dependent on the engineer and the producer's wishes and skill level. And I'll bet you've already realised this, no engineer wants to do a bad mix or muck up music with lots of effects. Producers have the final word.
There's no need for Loudness Wars on these live shows. As I stated earlier, at the location site the music or sporting event audio sounds good in the control room. A company I used to work for does live broadcasts of the Superbowl. IMO, the half time performances sound pretty good. One crew does the production of the game, while a different audio engineer and director whose specialty is live music does the halftime show.
I know what you're saying about too much guitar or not hearing the vocals. You can blame the engineers for that, either bad mic'ing or a bad mix. The same happens at concerts. I've come away from some shows where a poor mix has ruined the experience for me.
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