Threshold T-200. Help me choose a preamplifier

The system worked without interruption for two days. The sound hasn't improved.

Yesterday I managed to make the sound appear.
I don't know what I did, but the preamp worked. I despaired, disconnected the preamplifier from the system, and took it apart. I decided that the Japanese master did not solder any cable, or the cable fell off during transportation. I checked all the cables from the power supply to the lamps, once I even got a shock. :) Apparently, the capacitors were discharged about me. :) But after I moved all the wires and connected the preamplifier, the sound started, but it was very terrible. I left it on all night, I'll check the quality tonight. I will be very upset if the sound does not improve.

NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amplifier (RCA input) - there is sound - This connection worries me a lot.

It depends on the Threshold amplifier input circuit design, some amplifier just simply use a spst switch to connect/disconnect RCA input to XLR pin 2.

If that is the case, you need to pull out the XLR connector from the Threshold amplifier input, only connect the tube preamp to the RCA input of Threshold amplifier and switch the input selector to unbalanced and see if there is sound.

@big_greg , You wrote: "(2 options depending on pins)". Which option should I choose? I have an XLR connection to a Jeff Rowland Capri preamp, and from there to a Threshold T-200 amplifier. I can’t find information anywhere on these two devices, which pin is their phase.

Yes. When switching to XLR or RCA in the settings of the Teac NT-505, I changed these parameters.

 

NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amplifier (RCA input) - there is sound - This connection worries me a lot.

The NT-505 requires that you define the output - XLR (2 options depending on pins) or RCA.  Did you change that setting on the NT-505 when you connected to RCA?

NT-505 RCA → Tube preamp → Threshold amp (RCA input) - no sound
NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amp (XLR input) - sound
NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amplifier (RCA input) - there is sound. WHY THERE IS SOUND? :)))

I don’t quite understand your question... Both XLR and RCA cables are now plugged into the Threshold amplifier. I want to make it so that you can listen to both XLR and RCA by switching the toggle switches on the amplifier. From different preamplifiers. 
Now this is a one-time connection:
NT-505 RCA → Tube Preamplifier → Threshold Amplifier (RCA input)
NT-505 XLR → Balanced Preamp Jeff Rowland → Threshold Amp (XLR input)

Does your Threshold amp require xlr shorting pins when running the amp single ended? 

Friends, I am facing the following problem: As you know, I bought one balanced Jaff Rowland Capri preamplifier, the second preamplifier is a homemade Japanese tube preamplifier. The switching is as follows: from the Teac NT-505 via an XLR cable to the Jeff Rowland preamp, from the preamp via an XLR cable to the Threshold Amplifier. Further. From NT-505 via RCA cable to homemade tube preamp, from tube preamp via RCA cable to Threshold Amplifier. Checking connections: turned on the XLR on the NT-505, on the Threshold amplifier, the switches are in the XLR position. Everything plays great. I turned on RCA on the NT-505, on the Threshold amplifier I switched the toggle switches to the RCA position. Does not play.

At first I thought the tube amp was the problem. He’s new. I did not disassemble it, perhaps something was messed up with the switching. 
Then I did the following: I turned on the NT-505 so that the sound went through the XLR output, and on the Threshold amplifier I turned on the toggle switches in the RCA position. And you will not believe, the sound appeared .... I do not understand what is happening. Amplifier broken?
It turns out like this: the signal goes from the DAC via an XLR cable to the Jeff Rowland preamplifier, from the preamp via an XLR cable to the Threshold amplifier, but at the same time, the toggle switches on the Threshold amplifier are switched to the RCA position, i.e. signal reception should be RCA, but the sound still goes. I don’t understand what’s going on and how do I get the sound to only go over the RCA cable through the tube amp....

By the way, both preamplifiers came to me a month ago. And I still haven't unpacked them. :) Tomorrow I will have a holiday comparable to Christmas or a birthday. :)

HOORAY!!! Finally, my long-awaited amplifier has arrived !!!!! I’m so happy! I haven’t connected it yet. It is cold in Russia now, and the amplifier arrived very cold. Let it stay for a day. But my hands are already itching to connect! :)

Now I’m looking at it, reading the back of the amplifier and I have questions. How can I connect it to the speaker system?
I have a Diatone DS-90C acoustic system, this speaker system has the ability to connect via the Bi-wiring system. I have a Kimber 12 cable. On the acoustics side, I divided this cable into 4 parts and connect it to the acoustic system using the biwiring system. But on the amplifier side, I divided this cable into only two parts, because in my old amplifier, although it also has the ability to connect two speaker systems, but not through the biwiring system.
This amplifier also has four pairs of terminals. But there is also the inscription "bi-wiring". That is why I had a question. Regardless of any inscriptions, simply plug the existing two halves of the cable into the terminals (but then the question is: into which ones? those that are closer to the center of the amplifier, or those that are closer to the edges of the amplifier?). Or should I split the end of the cable that should connect to the amplifier into four pieces and connect to all four terminals on each side?

@unsound ,Thank you very much! Ay calmed me down!)))
The English language is extremely poor in the expression of emotions)) Or I know it very poorly. )) I want to express my deep respect and gratitude to you personally for your help and support. ))

@vestusto, Don’t worry, I don’t expect you to have any problems. 

So glad to hear you found a preamp.  One thing I've found,is the chase is almost as much fun as the purchase.  There is so much to learn in the research.  The down side is getting addicted to the chase.  Enjoy the music!

Thank you zap kind words! :) My nervous system calmed down a bit. :) Money spent. All that remains is to wait for all this to come to me. Run the test track for the first time, on which I test all the equipment, and listen. If the sound is impressive for the first time, the timpani will give goosebumps, which means that everything is fine, the money was well spent.

@unsound , Sorry, but I didn't know that ... Now it started to bother me. What could go wrong?

Clarifications: I have rechecked many preamps in my price range and were looking for those with less than 100 ohms balanced output impedance. I made a list. And this preamplifier from Jeff Rowland made it to this list. It has an output impedance of 80 ohms. And I decided that if I won this preamplifier, I would try both XLR and RCA connections, and compare. In addition, this preamplifier is extremely rare in my country, few people know about it. If I fail to make friends with him, then I can sell him for 1800-2000 dollars and at the same time I will be in profit.

So glad to hear you found a preamp.  One thing I've found,is the chase is almost as much fun as the purchase.  There is so much to learn in the research.  The down side is getting addicted to the chase.  Enjoy the music! 

Interestingly, at one point in time Jeff Rowland subscribed to a rather unique perspective that pres and amps should be connected via a power transfer that eschewed the standard 10 to 1 typical impedance transfer. I think he later abandoned that concept; perhaps due to compatibility concerns. I don’t believe this to be cause for concern for you.

Good evening and good mood to all forum participants! :)
I want to express my deep gratitude for your help and advice in choosing a preamplifier!
Today I won a Jeff Rowland CAPRI S preamp at auction. It will be $ 1650 shipping! Below my budget! I'm so happy! I read some of the reviews, this preamp is very well received and described as "transparent". And I liked the fact that a phono stage for it exists in nature, maybe I'll be lucky and I'll find it. :) Or I will find a diagram of this board and the specialists will make it. Therefore, I think I am lucky today. :) Now it remains to wait 1.5 months, and all this will come to me! :))

@yyzsantabarbara , Thanks for your concern and for the link. But $ 4,800 is 2.5 times my budget. :) I can still collect 2000 - 2500 dollars, but 5 thousand dollars with delivery is too much for me.

@vestusto, the above mentioned  Levinson pres have micro-processor controls for user controls such as volume, balance, source selection, communication with other Levinson gear, etc. It is not Class D in the audio domain. As this is not done in a simple typical manner it might make parts and labor tricky, should it need servicing. I can’t speak to all the other pres out there.

This preamp is a bit expensive but it has some historical connection with Threshold and it does sound great. I also own it and it sounds great. You may want to research the lower priced preamp models in CODA's lineup.

Coda 07X Only 10 Hrs.use For Sale - US Audio Mart

Aric Audio is a great preamp, but I can't afford it. )) although I spoke with Aric - he is a good person. he kindly explained everything to me.

I give up ... All preamplifiers that are on the secondary market in Russia have an output impedance of 150 Ohm ....

Please advise a good preamplifier that can reveal all the charm of my amplifier, not XLR. With conventional unbalanced inputs, but preferably with a phono stage.

There is one question I don't understand: Threshold T-2 was designed specifically for T-series amplifiers, and the specification for this preamplifier says that the impedance at the balanced output is 150 ohms. It turns out that the engineers have made two devices incompatible with each other? It doesn't look right…

Although the general 'rule of thumb' is that it is better to have a low impedance at the output of the preamp and to have a high impedance at the input of the power amp and we should using a minimum ratio of >1:10.
But it is fair to point out there's exception IF THE PREAMP CAPABLE OF PROVIDE THE REQUIRED CURRENT into a low input impedance power amp. For example: krell cast connection, darTZeel 50 ohms BNC and jeff rowland 600 ohms input impedance.

Chord CPA 3200 - 68 Ohm. can you say something about this device?

@unsound , are all the preamplifiers I have given - is it a microprocessor type? I’m a little confused in terms, so I can say stupid, but I’d rather ask: does this mean that they work in class D? Not class A like Pass Labs preamps?

The bewitch sn3008 tube preamp has an output impedance of 10 ohm’s, they might be available in Russia.

but this is a chinese preamp ... i don't want a chinese amp. I still do not trust the quality of China, even though all brands have moved their production to China ...

The bewitch sn3008 tube preamp has an output impedance of 10 ohm’s, they might be available in Russia.

Those Levinson pieces should work just fine. In their day they were considered amongst the best. Personally I’d be wary of old micro-processor controlled units, and though it might not be a real concern for you in Russia, the new mark Levinson owners don’t have the best reputation for customer support.

You are not sounding harsh, and your English is far better than many of the native English speakers that haunt this forum. I am merely suggesting that the Threshold is a fine solid state amp amp that might be a better candidate for a moderately priced tube amp than a solid state Pass preamp. As mentioned, I have heard many and and owned two Pass preamps, and I was underwhelmed to say the least. Lifeless, dry, sterile, and just un-musical, in my opinion. His amps...FANTASTIC, on the other hand! I also would not be too concerned about using balanced over RCA. Just because a piece of gear utilizes XLR, does not always mean it is truly, "balanced". I use unbalanced cables from my Aric Audio Motherlode to my Coda 16 and I do not believe that I am missing anything in the sound quality. 

Mark Levinson 380S
Mark Levinson No.38SL
All of them : Output impedance: less than 6 Ohm...
Mark Levinson No.326S -  Output impedance: less than 50 Ohm...
Haven’t I already found what I need so quickly? :)
And at the Japanese auction they are still worth less than $ 1,500. I think by the end of the auction the price will rise to 2300 dollars, but I can survive it. What do you think, dear friends, should I buy one of these preamplifiers?

@unsound ,  Sorry, that's not what I meant ... I asked a rhetorical question: are Japanese technologies better than American ones? I do not know the answer to this question. :) I didn't have any American amplifiers or American cars. :)

@vetusto, I would not agree that Japanese audio tech is more reliable than U.S.. Components like capacitors typically last at least as long as about 25 years, give or take, and might last many more… or not. One would want to replace them before they fail and potentially cause further problems. Sort of like replacing automobile tires, better to replace them when they’re worn, rather than when they fail. Those  IBGT transistors are about as common as hens teeth.

@unsound ,  now have a Yamaha A2000. Graduated in 1979. He is 42 years old - the same as me. :)) Was under repair 1 time, and then only because he has thermoset terminals, which once just crumbled in my hands when I tightened the cable tightly in them. The specialist replaced these terminals with modern ones and checked all the transistors, resistors, capacitors, etc., and said that everything is in a state close to ideal. Isn't Japanese technology already more durable than American one? :) I really, really want to hear the American sound. None of my acquaintances have an old-era American amplifier. Except for Mcintosh.

Mark Levinson 380S
Mark Levinson No.38SL
All of them : Output impedance: less than 6 Ohm...
Haven’t I already found what I need so quickly? :) 
And at the Japanese auction they are still worth less than $ 1,500. I think by the end of the auction the price will rise to 2300 dollars, but I can survive it. What do you think, dear friends, should I buy one of these preamplifiers?

@vetusto, Not rude at all. My suggestion to sell, was in part due to system complications, but mostly because this 25 year old(?) amp could be a maintenance challenge.

@rbaker ,  I saw your message. Thanks for the tip. But I just looked at the ModWright website, the LS 100 model has balanced inputs, but the output impedance of these inputs is 300 ohms.

but perhaps you should sell the Threshold and consider other options?

I can not do it.
You cannot imagine how difficult it is to get good equipment in Russia for not big money. As you can see from my description of my system, I brought almost everything from Japan. But I want to hear a really American sound. I hunted for Threshold T-800D for more than a year, but I could not find it for relatively reasonable money, in Russia these amplifiers are already all from collectors and are not on sale. And it is almost impossible to bring such heavy equipment from America.
And the fact that I came across this Threshold T-200 for $ 2300 at an auction in Japan - I think it’s a very big luck. This amplifier will float to me for 2 months. I have a lot of time. And thanks to you and this forum, I learned a lot about the Threshold brand, about the engineer who made this amplifier, and what a preamp should be like for it. I think, with your help, I will make the right choice, and my system will play magically.

I am very grateful to you all for your help! And I sincerely hope that you will continue to help me with the choice.

This is not rude, I wrote? :) It seems to me that I can make a lexicon mistake and inadvertently offend someone. :)

@unsound , I have the following system now:
Speaker system: Diatone DS-90C (I hunted them for over a year. Won at an auction in Japan.)
Integrated amplifier: Yamaha A2000 (an excellent amplifier, but it does not reach the level of detail to the Hegel amplifier I had before, however, in the low-frequency range Yamaha is a cut above the Hegel).
Sound source: computer (this is temporary, because I recently bought a Teac NT-505 streamer, it is still sailing to me from Japan).
DAC: Teac UD-501 (a good DAC that served me faithfully for a long time until Windows 10 came out, on Windows 10 the drivers from the UD-501 get up very clumsily, which is why it was decided to change it ...)
Second sound source: Micro DD-8 turntable (excellent turntable, which I got in perfect condition, I also won it at an auction in Japan).
Media player: Dune HD Duo 4K (a new media player from this company has already been released, but I’m not in a hurry to change it yet).
So, Teac UD-501 (and in the future Teac NT-505) and Dune HD Duo 4K have balanced outputs. It is for this reason that I want to build a balance system.

found another preamplifier with an output impedance of 68 ohms: Chord CPA 3200.

The 10 to 1 is a minimum guide (but a
 time proven, good one) not a hard rule. With that said these T series products have a few questionable technical attributes for both amps and pres. 

There is one question I don't understand: Threshold T-2 was designed specifically for T-series amplifiers, and the specification for this preamplifier says that the impedance at the balanced output is 150 ohms. It turns out that the engineers have made two devices incompatible with each other? It doesn't look right…

@vetusto, Within the right applications balanced can have its advantages, but there’s much more to consider. I’m not sure what speakers your trying to drive, or for that matter what your sources are, but perhaps you should sell the Threshold and consider other options?

I have been looking for a balanced amplifier with a low output impedance for half a day today. So far I've only found Black Ice F360. And in the specification for this preamplifier, the impedance is specified as 100 ohms.

@unsound , O!! thanks!!! now I understand the phrase of the respected Laaudionut.)))

@laaudionut, forgive me if I may sound harsh, I don’t know much English. ))
I’m not obsessed with the Pass Labs brand. I’m fixated on the balanced amplifier inputs. I had a Hegel amplifier a long time ago, and it sounded better through the balanced inputs. I checked. not much better, but better.
understand correctly, I have only 2000 dollars ... :)) In Russia there is a saying: eat a fish and not choke on a bone.)) So I want a preamplifier with a balanced sound output circuit, and not exceed my budget. ))