Even that approach is not entirely novel. The Kenwood L07D also uses partial magnetic levitation to reduce the downward force on the bearing, but the spindle is in contact with the bearing.
In the case of Tiger Paw the platter is not suspended magnetically. The load on the bearing is reduced, however, magnetically.
from the Tiger Paw website,
“Magnetic levitation has been used before, and is currently used, by a small number of exotic turntable manufacturers; however our application does not actually raise the spindle from it’s contact with the thrust pad but it does dramatically reduce the force and friction between the two surfaces. We basically reduce this by around 90%.
Tranquility has taken a considerable amount of time to develop and draws upon a broad range of specialist experience in turntable component development, and utilizes a unique array of high quality rare earth magnets in a specific arrangement to ensure that the fields are perfectly aligned in order to deliver precisely the amount of force required. In particular we’d like to thank Mark Holterman for his contribution and collaboration along with his original work with magnetic systems.”
Geoff, So long as the belt (assuming a BD drive system) is in direct contact with the platter structure, I see no way there could be "slippage" or excessive compliance if the platter is suspended magnetically. Although I guess you may be referring to an interaction of magnetic fields that can dampen the rotational inertia of the platter.
The slippage issue arises with *opposing magnets* such as mag lev devices. Thecslippage occurs due to magnetic field forces in the horizontal plane. There are obviously also magnetic forces in the vertical direction. Since some turntables such as Verdier employ mag lev one assumes slippage can be overcome. But generally, slippage for mag lev is controlled by having “stops” in place so slippage won’t result in the top plate slipping too far. One also assumes in the case of a platter suspended by mag lev slippage will occur on start up but won’t occur after the platter reaches speed due to friction. But I’m guessing a little bit at that last point.
If what you say is true there is no issue, but unless I misunderstood, Daveyf’s post of 6-16-2018 suggested the drive is magnetic a la the Transrotor TMD system. Sorry if I and others got it wrong.
I am trying to understand the comments which seem to discuss the concept of 'slippage' due to magnetic coupling. Either I am missing this or they are. There is no magnetic coupling between the subplatter and the top main platter. The platters STILL are on top of each other. All that the magnets do is to introduce an upwards LIFT to the ENTIRE assembly. The main platter still FIRMLY sits on top of the subplatter. So, how is it possible to affect the speed in this scenario ? If the subplatter turns, the motion is 100% transferred to the main platter. There can NOT possibly be a slippage between them.
As far as stray magnetic fields are concerned there is a shielding effect when using opposing magnets but you still have stray fields And the only thing that will disrupt them are iron and nickel alloys. Certain cartridges near moving magnets can hum but I have NOT seen this design and the manufacturer probably accounted for it. Also, regarding speed you will have less belt pull and wow flutter and drift should improve with ANY controller.
I have a great deal of experience with this as it is a key feature of my turntable bearing design. Relieving the platter of much of it’s weight reduces friction and thus make the motor work less. This frees up motor torque towards driving the friction in the record groove. Subjectivity less bearing friction often results in a "faster" sound as described above. A test for this is to spin the platter to 33.3 rpm without the belt and time it till it hits zero, then do the same with the magnets to measure the hopefully lower friction. My tables on a good day will run over 7 minutes for example. Regards Bruce Anvil Turntables
@mre28m5 Wow, you have some really sh---t dealers in your area! Wouldn't work on your table because you replaced your mat...what a prima donna! Like I said above, I will be watching the various Tranq users and their posts over time, I sure would like this mod to be as great through time as everyone is saying it is now. Price for a mod with that kind of upswing in SQ is really quite reasonable, IMO. We shall see though.
@daveyf... In answer to your question, the Linn dealer in my town refused emphatically to inspect or adjust my LP12 because I had replaced the original mat. The other Linn expert in my town did replace the grommets and set the springs’ tension. Though when I arrived to pick up my LP12, it was playing the label of a record. The paper label. The technician then cranked on one of the spring tension screws in my presence and suggested that I buy a non-Linn motor. I will not take my LP12 back to that shop.
In the absence of any trustworthy expertise I have had to do my own research and decide how best to bring my LP12 into the 21st Century. A positive, if unintended, consequence of the above circumstances is that I did discover the TP Tranquility. Having heard the improvement, I would add Tranquility if my LP12 had a Cirkus bearing. And I guess the Cirkus will be my next purchase in the near future.
Regarding the slippage issue, it might be that the lower magnet could move if the locking collar is not sufficiently tight. On my system 1/4 revolution of the lower magnet was the difference between scraping and not scraping. I would also set the lower magnet height with the heaviest LP in my collection on the TT platter with the motor running. It’s been just a few days, but I still listen for rubbing after most album changes. Just a thought...
That’s good. Unfortunately a few of the other users have reported problems with this issue after some amount of use. I would question whether the magnetic field lessens over time ( if this is possible??), resulting in some slight slippage?? Personally, I’m going to sit this one out until there is more definitive feedback on this issue..and after some amount of time has gone by. In the meantime, I will certainly be interested in following the various threads etc., regarding this mod.
Anybody here using a Radikal D power supply with the Tranquility?
@mre28m5-- Why did you skip the Cirkus bearing mod? This mod is IMO a real game changer...gives you a lot of what you described in your post above.
I’m still on the fence about the Tiger Paw Tranquility mod...too many naysayers around, plus I don’t want to have any issues with the speed control...which is now really amazing.
I bought a Tranquility and installed it on my LP12 a couple days ago. Ordered the unit from the UK. It was delivered to the West Coast in four days. Installation and adjustment took about an hour, which included reading the instructions a few times. The instructions were pretty clear, though not 100% accurate. FYI, if you buy a “Tranq,” the magnet assembly that is fitted to the inner platter is installed so that the screw heads are visible. The final thing to check is that there is no audible rubbing with the motor driving the table with an LP on it. Tiger Paw included a pair of film handling gloves, which is very thoughtful.
The sonic benefits are immediately audible and obvious. On the LP’s listened to so far there is better bass definition and detail, soundstage is wider, instruments and voices occupy their own space, highs and mids are clearer and sweeter, and overall the sound of the table is much faster and more dynamic. I could go on. Not sure if I would characterize my assessment as a “rave.” However, the results exceeded my expectations.
I think the Tranquility is a very good investment. I am very pleased with it. For context my turntable is an oldie... S/N 17XXX. No Cirkus, new belt, new oil, new bushings, Ittok arm with Cardas Clear wire direct to pre, Goldbug Medusa cart, Spec AP-UD1 mat. It’s great that the Tranquility can improve a 40 year-old table.
To the the issues raised in earlier posts... I suppose speed or slippage issues could be encountered if the lower magnet is not adjusted properly for normal operation. The platter assembly spun freely for several revolutions during setup of my system. Also the platter height did not change on my system after the Tranquility was installed. So I believe the bearing position remains unchanged.
I think the Tranquility works very well and represents very good value.
If I remember correctly, the bottom disc of the Tranquility is attached to the top of the bearing and the upper disc mounts to the underside of the sub platter. This enables the sub platter to essentially float off the bearing. However, I can certainly see how this could also introduce speed issues.
@varyat
Can you elaborate a little more as to your thoughts about the differences that you heard pre and post Tranquility?
Linn's philosophy has also been...if it sounds better, it is better. I think the Tranquility brings a lot to the tune - better defined bass most notably. These mods need to be installed by someone who knows what they are doing. It is a simple install but the devil is in the details. My decks needed the spring rate tweaked a bit for optimal results. As far as LP12 tweaks go the Tranquility is a bargain. ATB, Mark
The whole philosophy of the LP12 is - if I am not mistaken - close mechanical coupling from platter bearing through the tonearm to the stylus (and record groove) while isolating these components from outside vibrations. It seems to me that un-loading the bearing would be detrimental to that goal. I never experienced bearing noise (rumble) when I owned an LP12. RG
Davey, Is it correct to infer from your post that with the Tiger Paw mod, the belt drives the actual platter only indirectly, via the magnetic connection between the TP disc and the platter? This would be much like the Transrotor TMD option, I think. I agree also that the additional compliance introduced by the mod might adversely affect speed accuracy. I would also say that the LP12 bearing was designed to bear the weight of the platter; so why mess with that, if it introduces a new issue such as this one?
I too have been following the various opinions of this mod. While most are overwhelmingly favorable, ( some are even huge raves), there appear to be ( as usual) a few naysayers. The naysayers seem to overwhelmingly state that the issue is that the actual speed accuracy falls off...possibly due to slight slippage between the inner disc platter piece and the lower disc piece of the Tranquility. Nonetheless, I have NOT heard this mod...and would surely like to before coming to an absolute conclusion. The slippage issue does seem plausible...unfortunately!
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