Upgrade From Systemdek IVe

Turntables found to be the most complicated components to make decision since everyone of us hears and prefers his/her own way of sound. At level of Systemdeck and above many would prefer it even over much more priced units and many would think that analogue playback can get way better.

For example to me Mochell Orbe upgrade to Gyro SE I have didn't seem to deliver much of improvement for over $2k worth, so I stay with the same table and lately upgraded to Michell Techno Arm(Michell's moded RB300 with silver wire). I'm still looking to upgrade power supply that DOES improve the performance significantly.

I'd think of what improvement areas vs. mine would deliver me different tables I'd like to consider and years ago started looking at Oracle Delphi and still lookin... In my case when I think of upgrade, I always think of another suspension table. The sound of suspension tables IS specific and extreamly comfortable

Share your habbits and needs of analogue...

Your next step is probably to get a better cartridge than the x3 you are using now. that will probably make the most noticeable difference in your sound for the least expenditure.

Thank you for the replies.
I still have some confusion as to which way to go given all the nuances behind turntable performance and selection so I want to simplify the question and greatly appreciate your opinion.
If I did install a Graham 2.0 or 2.2 arm on the Systemdek (the ones I can afford) or a Micro Seiki 505 (which I also think very highly of) how would the Systemdek with either of these 2 arms compare to either the VPI Scoutmaster with 10 inch arm or the older VPI Aries 1 with a 10 inch arm? I am very fond of VPI for several reasons (built quality, service, performance, etc.) so I am simplifying my question by asking for a comparison against 2 specific tables I like.
Against these 2 VPI tables how favorably, or not so favorably would the Systemdek with either a Graham or Micro Seiki arm compare? Please be as specific as you can with the reply.
Thank you very much.

As you are clear that you want to buy a Graham arm & you like VPI, the Classic would be a good choice.
The Systemdeck is a good T/T but has its' sonic limitations so unfortunately will not let you experience anywhere near the potential of the Graham.
The VPI will be a big step-up provided that the rest of your system is up to it.

Disclosure: I own an Aries 1 Extended with a JMW-12. Also own a HW-19 III / Premier FT3 and a "re-plinthed" TNT-1 / Jelco SA-750D. I own a MS MA-505 arm.

A bit long and rambling....

The Aries 1 is a VERY GOOD table, if you can find one. It will respond well to improvements in other front-end components like a cart or arm. A combination that I've heard that sounds very good is an Aries 1 / JMW arm / AT-OC9ml. I have not heard a Scoutmaster, but general comments here and on other forums seem to suggest that the Aries 1 is the better table.

Aries sound qualities are very dependent on the platter. Comments seem to be that the early platter is better than the solid acrylic one. It is also rumored that the Aries "black knight" (?) model is very good but a bit soft in micro-dynamics. I think that's the black platter on the replinthed TNT and would agree that assessment: smooth and sweet, detailed but just little lacking in dynamic punch.

I have used a MA-505. It's a very good arm. Liked it a lot on the replinthed TNT. A bit dark but that might be a good match for some carts (I was using a Lyra Clavis da Capo). IMO, it's a better arm than the Jelco which I was testing when I got the Aries. I'm currently using a JMW-12 / OC9ml on the Aries 1 Extended.

An Aries 1 with a Graham would be a formidable performer, with the right cartridge. IMO, it would surpass an Aries 1 with a MA-505 arm. Though it's a very good arm, IMO the MS arm just can't keep up with the Graham.

I am very partial to VPI tables and have been a VPI owner for decades. Some important points to consider include VPI's outstanding customer service and their on-going support for pretty much all of their products.

VPI has earned my loyalty over the years.

Bill

I owned an Aries 1 TT for years, and still believe that it is one of the best decks ever designed. The heavy platter/spindle system was a model of mass loaded simplicity. I sold it because I grew to dislike the JMW tonearm; more specifically, to dislike the guesstimation method of adjusting azimuth on the VPI arms. In retrospect, I probably should have sold the arm and re-drilled the plinth for a Graham or something similar.

But to the OP's question - the Systemdek IVe is a pretty good deck, not world class but pretty good. What is it specifically about the Systemdek that you do not like or believe is lacking? Have you tried twealing your deck or changing the cartridge?

There are many, many good decks out there at a variety of price points. If you ask ten guys here you will receive ten different answers. If you are going to spend some serious gelt on a new analog rig, you should probably be able to articulate what you are unhappy with and what you expect to gain by a change. Not to be dismissive, but simply posting that you are looking for "a clear improvement" is too vague for anyone to provide you with a thoughtful and useful response. IMO

Br3098, thank you for the response.
Your question of me of what exactly I dislike of the Systemdek is one I honestly can't specifically answer (let me explain). My sincere belief is that this is the component which, if improved upon, will yield the greatest sonic improvement based on the system I currently have.
My current system is as follows:
Phone stage: Wright Sounds WPP 100c
Preamp; BAT VK 5i
Amps: VTL Compact 80 monoblocks
Speakers: DIY open baffle with horns -very satisfied with the sound!
Cartridge: have several but currently listening to Ortofon X3.

At this point I am very satisfied with the evolution of the electronics and feel the best place to concentrate to drive sonic improvements is in the analog front end. I recognize that the arm/cartridge specifically are the weakest part of the TT but I do have this nagging feeling that the analog front end, as a whole, is the weakest link in my rig and hence the reason why I am looking to make improvements here.

To further answer your question I am constantly (maybe a fault of mine) looking to eek out better and better sound of my system and thus always looking to make an improvement so although I can't specifically provide a list of the specific items I don't like of the Systemdek (I actually do like the table) I have a feeling this is where I can gain the best improvement in sound reproduction.

I am conflicted on what my approach should be in my continued system evolution. Is it better to simply sell this TT and get another one with a better arm or just replace the arm and current cartridge because the table itself, with a better arm and cartridge, would yield a clear and significant sound improvement and thus save me money to invest in other aspects of the system like better cables, etc.

I believe that Audio Note of England bought Systemdek. They have a very interesting turntable, the TT-2, which has 2 motors, that sounded very good at the recent California Audio Show. That might be worth looking into. Also, Fremer mentioned that the VPI Classic 11 beat his digital copy of his Continuum turntable setup. I've heard a digital copy of his turntable(although I thought it was a higher resolution copy), and it was very good. BTW, there were many more turntables at the most recent California Audio Show than last year's.